Finally, the Falls Road is getting its own 8 Mile.
Kneecap is a heavily fictionalized biopic of the Belfast hip-hop group of the same name. With the balaclava-clad DJ Próvaà in tow, Mo Chara and Móglaà Bap rap in a boisterous mix of Irish and English, from the perspective of the generation known as the “cease-fire babies†— young people growing up in the shadow of the Troubles they’re not old enough to remember. Kneecap have tracks about the hardships of Catholic youth, the pleasures of a local pub, and one imagining a wild night out with the hard-right politicians from the Democratic Unionist Party. They also have many, many songs about doing illegal drugs.
The film Kneecap won the Audience Award at this year’s Sundance Film Festival, and it is probably the only movie this year to include both an appearance by a two-time Oscar nominee (Michael Fassbender plays Móglaà Bap’s father, an IRA man who may have faked his own death) and the line, “I’m gonna blow you like a Brighton hotel.†Former Sinn Féin leader Gerry Adams also has a cameo in a scene set during a ketamine trip. This time, he gets to use his own voice.
Mo Chara and Móglaà Bap grew up in the Irish-language community of West Belfast, and the film takes place amid the campaign to get the government to recognize Irish as an official language of Northern Ireland. (Or in republican parlance, “the north of Ireland.â€) DJ Próvaà has his own subplot inspired by his actual double life as a mild-mannered Irish teacher by day, nationalist firebrand by night. The scene where he is captured mooning the camera with the words “BRITS OUT†written on his butt cheeks is, believe it or not, drawn from real life.
This is a pivotal summer for Kneecap, who just released their debut album, Fine Art, a concept album set in a fictional pub. In the U.K. and Ireland, where the group are a reliable lightning rod for media controversy, the film looks on track to be one of the biggest releases of the year. Now, like Adams before them, they’re on an American-media blitz. Anyone expecting the next Sex Pistols might be disappointed: They are nice lads, well-read, who shake your hand at the end of an interview. Still, there’s no getting around the fact that Kneecap come from a divided land. When I tell them my dad grew up in Derry, Mo Chara’s response is immediate: “What’s your last name?†In a laudable example of the group’s anti-sectarian principles, no one mentions that my surname smacks of Protestantism. What they do talk about is everything else — the bizarre drinking laws in Utah, their court case against the U.K. government, and why Guinness are (allegedly) “cunts.â€
One thing I learned from this movie is that apparently there’s no Irish word for fuck.
Mo Chara: We had different swear words back in the day. But they were maybe not as effective as fuck. Fuck is international. It’s an easy word to say with your mouth, you know?
Móglaà Bap: We have plenty of words for vagina in Irish.
M.C.: We have 32 words for field. If it’s at a bit of an angle, or if it’s surrounded by water … There’s a really interesting book by Manchán Magan called Thirty-Two Words for Field. It goes into how the Irish language ties you into your ancestry and your land. Place names start to make sense whenever you translate them back into Irish.
DJ PróvaÃ: The word fuck does exist in Irish as well. It’s got its own spelling, and you can conjugate it into a verb or use it as a noun.
I’ve heard you also had to come up with Irish words for things like MDMA.
M.B.: We actually recycle old Irish words that aren’t really used. Snaois is snuff, which is powdered tobacco. We use it for coke. Dúid, which is a joint, is an old clay pipe. 3CAG is MDMA, it means “three consonants and a vowel.†In Belfast there was a small group of us, we’d all speak Irish together. For the craic we’d translate all these words, and now there’s actually drug dealers in Belfast who use Irish. But we have to give credit to the other people, we never came up with all the words on our own.
For any Americans who maybe stopped paying attention to what was going on in Northern Ireland after 1998, can you give them a primer on what’s happening there?
M.C.: It’s like any post-conflict society. There has to be measures put in place to rebuild communities. All these young people are growing up being taught by their parents who’ve clearly been traumatized about what happened. Parents terrified of you going to a certain place in the city center at a certain time or certain roads you shouldn’t go to. They still lock the gates of the peace walls at 10 p.m. every night — fully grown adults being penned in. So it created this vacuum with a lot of mental-health issues from people being traumatized, and the services haven’t been there. Combined with that, there’s a massive suicide rate. And poverty. It’s one of the most deprived areas in that part of Europe.
M.B.: But you don’t wanna get too boiled down in focusing on negative things. There are a lot of positives in comparison to the way it was. The problem in the North now is the symptoms of PTSD, the anxiety, are mostly being treated by tablets and stuff.
M.C.: Americans know about that. Americans do it best.
M.B.: Now in Belfast and in the North, we’ve got a thriving Irish-language community, a lot of sports going on. A lot has changed for the better.
M.C.: West Belfast is in the best position it’s probably ever been with infrastructure and funding. The unionist areas have been funded a lot more, of course, because the state was built for that community. But over time, the people getting elected in the republican areas are from those areas, so they want to make change for where they’re from. That’s the real difference. A lot of loyalist politicians are in it for the career rather than actual positive change.
I was talking to a guy from Derry a few years ago, and he was saying it’s rare to see a film set in Northern Ireland that’s not about the Troubles.
M.C.: Obviously where we’re from, it’s one of those things that’s unavoidable. We knew we were gonna have to touch on it at least. But like he said, we all fall into the trap of just talking negatively about the North all the time. And it was important that it’s just young fellas, everyone’s surviving. Characters weren’t like, “We just love the Irish language.†We don’t mention the Irish language, really.
M.B.: It’s just a language. If someone speaks English, you’re not gonna assume they’re massive language activists. I grew up speaking Irish and it wasn’t for any political mission or anything.
DJP: When this kind of film is based in a working-class area, they always portray the young people as these eejits. Absolute eejits.
M.B.: They’re silly and goofy. They make money by doing graft, pulling moves. We wanted to stay away from that kind of style. There’s no reason working-class people can’t be [in a posh accent] steeped in culture and very articulate.
Tell me about the Irish-language community in Belfast. I only know about the Gaeltacht, so my mental image is of someplace very rural.
M.B.: It wasn’t until 1969 when the Irish-language movement in Belfast started. Before 1971, there was no Irish-language primary school when they started the school I went to. It was community funded for about 14 years. There’s a strong DIY-punk element to the Irish language in the North because they knew they could never rely on the state. So they built it themselves.
And the Irish-language secondary school is where you guys met?
M.C.: He’s a few years older, so he wouldn’t have been hanging around. An 11-year-old and a 16-year-old hanging out is a bit different from a 26-year-old and a 31-year-old.
M.B.: We started a festival and partied together, and that’s how we all met. And Próvaà was like the oldest veteran of the Irish-language movement. He would translate pop songs. There were literally like five people in Ireland singing Irish, so I had no choice but to book him for the festival.
M.C.: We couldn’t afford any of the other ones.
M.B.: So that’s where Kneecap was born. We had this squat, like a social squat for partying into the late hours. Because there aren’t too many places in Belfast where you can stay out late.
M.C.: A lot of Americans don’t know that, actually. We have really bad drinking laws. You’d think with Ireland, the epicenter of alcohol … But that’s why we drink so much, because we have such little time to drink. You have to drink faster and more because the pubs on a weekday will close at like half-eleven.
M.B.: It’s actually forcing us to drink more. It’s awful. We were in Utah — we were only allowed one drink at a time.
M.C.: You can’t buy double drinks. You can’t have a shot and a beer. You can’t order drinks for other people.
M.B.: But you can have six wives.
M.C.: You have six wives and they all have to buy their own drink.
What sort of training did you have to do to learn how to act for this film?
M.B.: We made sure we weren’t gonna be forced to pretend to be trees.
M.C.: “Act like the color blue.â€
M.B.: Onstage our emotions are always high, but on set you have to be happy, then down low and a bit sadder. Melancholic. That was what we were practicing. Just weird exercises like staring into each other’s eyes for ten minutes.
M.C.: Twenty minutes.
M.B.: It felt like a minute, though, for me. It’s like a little game. Acting is very playful. Just kinda not being too serious. [Does posh accent again] Letting go of your inhibitions.
DJ PróvaÃ, you were so good that I was surprised to learn that you were not a professional actor. I assumed the real DJ Próvaà wanted to keep his anonymity.
M.B.: Everybody keeps saying that. I don’t see it.
I’m serious. Do you feel like you unlocked something in yourself?
DJP: Uh, not too sure. Never thought about it. I was just in “be†mode.
[Mo Chara and Móglaà Bap begin laughing uproariously.]
M.B.: Is that a Socrates quote?
DJP: I’m deeply in the middle of exhaustion, so …
Like B-E, or B-E-E?
DJP: Like being, so being a bee. I was just buzzing out there, really. I dunno. We’re acting ourselves. It was the role we were born to play.
What’s one thing in the movie people would be surprised to find out is real?
M.B.: The start of the movie is real. I was baptized on a Mass Rock, if you’ve heard of them. A Mass Rock is an altar deep in the forest, away from civilization, where the Catholics would say Mass when Catholicism was outlawed in the 18th century. It was the first Mass that was said at this Mass Rock for 200 years. It was in a republican area, and when we were walking in with the priest, a British Army helicopter saw us. They thought they’d uncovered themselves an IRA training camp. Must have been a very weird IRA training camp. Even though it was a bunch of my aunties, they were like, “Follow them fuckers.â€
M.C.: “The IRA’s looking sexier than ever.â€
M.B.: I think that sums up how the British perceived people in the North — and how what happens in Palestine now — they just see potential terrorists everywhere.
What’s one thing people would be surprised to learn is not true?
M.B.: He doesn’t have a sectarian kink.
M.C.: I don’t think people would be surprised to hear that. That bit was merely for the screen. Michael Fassbender’s not his real dad. Sorry. I know they look alike.
M.B.: He’s too young to be my dad. He’d be deeply offended. His baby’s like 2.
Who was harder to cast, Fassbender or Gerry Adams?
M.B.: Gerry Adams was very easy and Michael Fassbender basically begged us to be in the film. He was absolutely starstruck when he met us. No, Gerry Adams was very easy. I think he’s always longed to be an actor. This might be his big break.
You have a lawsuit against the U.K. government after they rescinded a grant. I know there’s probably stuff you can’t talk about, but what can you say?
M.C.: It’s government funding, which is essentially taxpayer money, but It’s an independent body. This independent body, they basically gave us the go-ahead that there was 15,000 pounds of funding coming. Before that happened, Kemi Badenoch, a Tory MP, vetoed it. When a friend of ours who’s a journalist asked why, she said something along the lines of, “You can’t actually expect us to give U.K. funding to a band who opposes the United Kingdom.†By that logic, you shouldn’t have to pay taxes if you’re a republican. Believe me, I don’t want to pay taxes, especially if it’s to the U.K. government who’s funding wars in the Middle East for the last 30 years.
M.B.: It’s very U.S.S.R. “We’ll fund to support art but only if it supports our politics.†It’s crazy shit. They could have said anything. They could have said they’re opposed to drugs. But for some reason they chose politics. This has become a joke term in the North now, but they call it “parity of esteem,†where you have the right to exist in the north of Ireland but want a united Ireland. And we come underneath that bracket. So it’s still going to court and we’ll see what will happen. Hopefully, this will be the court case that will have the United Kingdom on its knees. It will fall apart and crumble after that.
When you go up against the Tories or the DUP, do you ever feel lucky in your enemies?
M.B.: They’re our frenemies.
M.C.: It’s so perfect for us. It doesn’t do them any favors, but they just keep giving us PR.
M.B.: It does them favors. They get to go on TV and have their faces on the news. They want to have an opportunity to talk, and there’s no better time to talk than to pretend to be outraged. I’ve never seen them talk half as passionately about real-life issues, but when there’s something that is culturally controversial, they’re straight out there. We’re in a dysfunctional symbiotic relationship with them.
I watched your interview on The Late Late Show, and the host asked if it was your mission to bring people together. Mo Chara, you said something about wishing you’d had more time to think of an answer.
M.C.: Fuck, I can barely remember that myself. I think it’s important, obviously. The divide where we’re from in the North is between working-class people. The biggest fucking advantage for a government ever is when they can have working-class people, who have way more in common than not, fighting amongst each other. It’s good for the government to keep us divided, thinking that we’re so different. We do advocate for a united Ireland because the British government has failed us for 100 years. It’s not like this is a trial run. You’ve had enough time and it’s failed. A united Ireland is for everyone. We’re not gonna throw all the loyalists or Protestants out. You know what I mean? There’s a massive Nigerian community. There’s a massive Syrian community. We think multiculturalism’s a fucking good thing. Jesus, I mean, try eating English food without the spices that they’ve stolen from around the world.
You talk about bringing people together. You have Protestant fans. But at the same time you’re playing with this very loaded imagery: the balaclava, things like that. Do you have to square that, or is the fun of Kneecap not having to square it?
M.C.: We don’t have to box everything up. I mean, we take the piss out of dissident republicans. We take the piss out of each other.
M.B.: We piss on each other.
M.C.: The place we come from is so serious. Obviously we have such strong political imagery, even something so silly as a flag. We take all this imagery and break it down and take the fucking piss. We think it’s important that we’re all able to have a fucking laugh about this now — not really a laugh, you know what I mean.
M.B.: We went to the Sandy Row, the fucking Orange Order march, and they were singing one of our songs. Us doing jokes slagging them about being Orange bastards, they called me a Fenian cunt, and then we shared a bottle of Buckfast. I think that is the progress our generation will make. We don’t have to agree on everything to be friends, and that’s something America could learn from as well. Taking the piss takes the sting out of the past.
M.C.: People say, “you can’t joke about that,†or “you can’t talk about that.†What else are we gonna do, stay traumatized and miserable and not talk about the elephant in the room ever again?
It seems to me like one of the freedoms you’re fighting for is the freedom not to have to be role models.
M.C.: The Irish language has enough of them.
One of the things I admire about you guys is you do put your values into practice.
M.C.: We started a gym in Aida in the West Bank. We helped with other bands to raise 80,000 pounds. We’ve been doing that a long time.
M.B.: We think it’s very important, that link between Palestine and Ireland. No matter how small it is. Imagine being in Palestine and being like, Why the fuck is nobody doing anything about this? And something as silly as seeing a fucking kid in Ireland holding a Palestinian flag, imagine what that would do for morale.
Is it going to be harder to live your values if you get more successful?
M.B.: We’ve done what we’ve done from day one. When we signed with our record label, we told them they’d have no input on what we say or do. When we did this film, we told them we’re not gonna stop talking about Palestine. Thankfully for us, I think in a capitalist society, if you’re making money, cunts don’t give a fuck.
M.C.: If the movie does as well as it looks like it’s gonna do, I don’t think they’re gonna care what flags we’re waving.
If it’s a hit, will you do a sequel?
M.B.: Hopefully we’ll get an ad for Beamish. Have you tried that? Basically it’s stout, but everyone drinks it down in Cork. It’s a smaller company. Guinness is owned by one of the biggest companies in the world.
M.C.: Guinness is cunts. They were so rich that they bought out near enough all the other breweries in Dublin so they’d have no competition. It’s smart but it’s fucking disgusting.
DJP: Also Guinness was selling guns to both sides in the community as well.
[Note: Vulture has reached out to Guinness for a response to these claims.]
So if we really want to live our values, what’s the most ethical drink to drink?
M.C.: Go to Rosmuc in Connemara and buy poitÃn off a 75-year-old. It’s the most ethical drink in the world.
M.B.: Or if you go to Kneecap.ie, our merchandise will make you feel really good.