When Cunk on Earth, Charlie Brooker’s triumphantly dumb mockumentary series about the history of human civilization, became an international sensation on Netflix in 2023, Diane Morgan, who plays the show’s host, Philomena Cunk, was as surprised as anyone. “I couldn’t believe the reaction it got,” says the U.K. comedian and actress, who has been playing the character on and off for 11 years (first on Brooker’s BBC Two show, Weekly Wipe, then in a spinoff series and specials like Cunk on Britain and Cunk on Shakespeare). Disbelief just so happens to be Cunk’s default state — the expression she wears so convincingly as she stares agape at real academics while conducting some of the dopiest interviews ever captured on-camera — so Morgan’s tone is familiar.
In Cunk on Life, a new hourlong special on Netflix, Morgan’s fictional TV presenter picks up right where she left off in 2023. “God knows everything we’re thinking. That’s a data-privacy nightmare, isn’t it?” she asks one expert in religion. The special sees Cunk tackling existential, scientific, and metaphysical quandaries even meatier than those she’s investigated in the past, making them all the better to deflate with her daffy non sequiturs. “Every life form is made of cells, like a prison,” she narrates at one point. “Which is probably why existence is so depressing. It’s a life sentence. Just like the sentences I say in this program about life.”
Like Cunk on Earth before it, the special breaks up its interviews and monologues with surreal or absurdist bits that keep the formula from growing stale. Fans of the show’s commitment to a certain “Belgian techno anthem” won’t be disappointed, but there are also elaborate scenes featuring a guided meditation, a promotional clip from a show about suicidal puppets, a possible twist finale for the character, and more. According to Morgan, it’s all part of a continuous quest to heighten the comedy of Cunk and the universe she lives in. “How are we going to top that?” she says the team asked themselves after the success of the last series. “Get some puppets in! Just throw everything at it!”
After the surprise success of Cunk on Earth, how soon did the team start talking about doing a follow-up?
We all thought that it had gone well and that we’d be mad not to do another, whether it be a series or a special. The trouble is you have to keep thinking up more and more highbrow topics. They sort of only work the deeper they are. We did Cunk on Christmas once, and I think it lacked the heavy weight of big topics like Shakespeare or the meaning of life. So, if we were to do another one now, I don’t know what the hell we would do. At the end of the show, I get abducted by aliens or something, don’t I?
I was going to ask about that! Was that meant to be a finale for the character?
Do you know what? At the end of the last series, we thought it would be funny if she fell off the edge of a cliff and died. But then we thought, We can’t do that, because we want to do another one. So, now, at the end of this one, I think I’ve been abducted by aliens. I’m not quite sure. It wasn’t discussed with me.
In previous iterations of Cunk, you weren’t a credited writer, but on this special, you are. How was it different from your perspective? Did they bring you in earlier in the creative process?
It wasn’t different. I think Charlie just thought, Oh, poor woman. We should give her a credit. Because I do add things. You have to. When you’re doing the interviews, it’s more like a conversation. I get a list of questions, but then you have to think on your feet and answer the guests if they talk to you. But that’s what I like. I love being able to improvise stuff in those interviews. It’s my favorite bit.
In those moments, what are you probing for reaction-wise?
I really want them to say something stupid. That’s the dream. You want to see a big reaction from them. Those interviews, they go on for like an hour or two sometimes, and they’re cut back to five minutes. So I spend a lot of time lulling them into a false sense of security and talking about their favorite topic. Then, once they’re nice and happy, I’ll ask them something ridiculous and watch how they get out of it. And it’s nice watching them struggle, isn’t it? It’s like pulling the wings off a fly.
What I love about the questions is how often they force the experts to explain an axiom they’ve held as self-evident for so long that they’ve lost the ability to articulate it.
Exactly. There’s one point in the show where I’m talking to one of them and I say, “Are my shoes made out of atoms?” And he says, “I’ll save you the bother. Everything is made out of atoms. Everything.” And I say, “Well, are thoughts made out of atoms?” And he was like, “Well, all right. No. Actually, no.” That got such a big round of applause in the screening, because she’d caught one of the experts out.
You were being a bit self-deprecating about Charlie giving you a writer credit, but you have shaped this character a lot. You once said that your partner, Ben Caudell, who writes for the show, used to follow you around your house and write down things you said to use them.
Yeah, he’d ask me what I know about Egypt and I’d tell him, and he would just laugh and write it down word for word.
It speaks to things you’ve said in the past about how you’re a lot like Philomena. Where do you notice the similarities most?
I think, in many ways, it’s the real me. If I didn’t have any social skills at all, I’d be totally Philomena. The fact that I have to be polite here with you now instead of yawning … [Laughs] The only difference is that I can say exactly what I want and it doesn’t matter. I can be as rude as I like. I’m not allowed to do that in real life.
Well, presumably, you also have more intelligence as a person navigating the world than Philomena?
I’m not sure I do, actually. [Laughs] I mean, I never try to find out about a topic. I never even read up on the experts who are coming in. I think, The less I know about a thing, the better. If you’re grasping at a topic, it’s funnier. People can identify with that more. People know bits of history; they don’t know the whole thing. And it’s probably the same bits that I know. The weird bits that stick in your head — like in the Battle of Hastings, someone got an arrow in the eye. I can’t remember anything else.
What do you imagine Philomena’s life is like outside of being a documentary host?
I’ve always thought she’s quite childlike. I see her as sort of a Mr. Bean figure, just bumbling around on her own. But I don’t see her having normal emotions like other people. I think she’s perfectly happy on her own.
In the new special, Cunk covers a few topics she’s covered previously, albeit in more detail. Do you think she learns things over time?
Yeah, I think some of it must go in. But I think it’s like any of us, you know? I take things in for a bit and then forget them again. I only remember things that are weird. They have to be totally outrageous. If it’s a date or a place, I’m not that interested.
It happens to me a lot with podcasts. I’ll listen to one, and then I’ll try to bring it up in conversation the next day and realize none of it stuck.
It’s weird, isn’t it? You’ll read a book, and two weeks later it’ll just have gone out of your head. There’s really no point trying to retain any kind of information.
One of the things that jumped out about the new special is how dark some of the jokes were compared to past Cunk installments. What do you attribute that to?
Do you mean the puppetry bits where they jump off a ledge? That’s the only dark bit I can think of.
There are a few. There’s the bit where the boom operator commits suicide, and then there’s the moment when your consciousness gets split while you’re doing a guided meditation, and then your inner voice gets shot.
You’re absolutely right. It’s gone much darker, hasn’t it? I think it’s just that we’ve tried stuff in the past, and you want this series to go a bit further and be a bit different. In the last half, they kind of throw everything at it. It’s got puppets, meditation, a weird “Streamberry” section, and a Philomena Cunk doll. Because the last series was such a success, they were just like, “How are we going to top that? Get some puppets in! Just throw everything at it!”
Do you think this is the first time in history a guided meditation has been recorded with a Manchester accent?
[Laughs] You’re probably right. Did you find it soothing?
I did actually close my eyes and give it a shot. But then Cunk started talking about sweatshop labor, and it became harder.
I used to listen to a guided meditation — Paul McKenna, I think it was. I found it really creepy. They do this thing where they go, “Breathe in … and breathe out. Breathe in …”
What was your interpretation of the puppet bit, where all of a sudden the special turns into a promotional segment for a streaming service whose most engaged viewer demographic is suicidal people on ledges?
When I read that, I thought, Oh my God. Only Charlie would come up with something so bleak with a little Sesame Street–style song to it. I loved it.
Do you think he was trying to make some sort of commentary on mindless entertainment being the only thing that keeps people from noticing how depressing the world is?
I think he’s just trying to make people laugh. I don’t think there’s a point. No one’s going to learn anything from this show. It’s just to take you away from the endless misery for three quarters of an hour.
I enjoyed the way you brought back “Pump up the Jam” in this special.
It nearly came back a second time as well, didn’t it? But I think, luckily, they thought, No, that’s too much.
Was it always the plan to bring it back? Were there any discussions about not wanting to do it because it would seem like fan service?
I think it’s one of those jokes where you labor something and people go, “Oh God, this again?” You can go so far with it, and it just gets funnier and funnier the more you play it. Then there’s a point where you go, “Right, that’s enough now.” And I think they got that just right.
Do you think there’s something specifically funny about that song?
Yeah. I think it’s ridiculous to have a song like that in a show about the meaning of life — or any history show. It’s just the wrong piece of music to have there. It means nothing. I’ve got a real fondness for “Pump Up the Jam” now. I didn’t appreciate that song at the time in the ’80s, but I do now. I hope they’re getting lots of royalties for it.
The show’s jokes, as you mentioned, have grown more ambitious over time. I’m curious if there are ever jokes or segments pitched that are so out there that they have to be shelved because they would break the Cunk universe.
We did a bit where I was talking to a wine expert, and I had to drink loads of wine, and I was just spitting it everywhere, and that didn’t go in. We film loads of bits and segments, and you never really know the actual tone of the show until you’re in the edit. So I’m sure there are bits that we thought, Oh, that’s a bit too surreal or That’s a bit too weird. It doesn’t fit in with the tone. You never really know until you’ve filmed all the expert interviews, which we try to do first. That sort of dictates where the show will go, what it’ll look like, and what they talk about. But it’s definitely gotten weirder. Once you’ve taken the fun out of all the tropes in documentaries — once you’ve seen that a few times — you need something else. So I think that’s why they’re bringing in things like puppets and elaborate sex scenes.
Do you find yourself surprised when watching documentaries to see certain tropes still popping up?
Yes, all the time! It’s just like Cunk. Everything is the same: their gestures, the vocal tones they use, the way they’ll carry on walking past the camera as they’re saying a line, the drone shots. You’d think they’d have watched Cunk and gone, Oh, well, we won’t do that because we’ll look ridiculous now. But no. It’s like that’s the template they’ve got, and they won’t deviate from it.
We talked about the special potentially being a Cunk finale. Is there anything else you feel you want to say with this character? Or do you feel like, if it were to come to an end now, you’d be okay with it?
Yeah, if it came to an end, I think I’d be okay with it. I’d miss it every now and then, because she’s like a superhero. She feels nothing, you know? She doesn’t feel hurt or shame or guilt. It’s like wearing a suit of armor, playing the character. It’s great fun. But then again, I don’t know where they’d have to take it to top this last one. Outer space? Maybe I can go up in Elon’s rocket?
In the 11 years you’ve been playing Philomena, how have you seen her evolve? And how have you changed the way you’ve approached it?
I think, the more I’ve done it, the more the writers have tailored it to me and what they know I do best. So I think it’s gotten better. I hope it hasn’t gotten worse! And suddenly she’s got a family now. And she’s got her mate Paul. So it’s nice to suddenly see glimpses of her home life. I wonder if she could do a cooking show next?
Like an instructional cooking show?
Yeah, a cooking show, but just with a microwave or something.