“Look there, mate,†Rod Stewart says to Jools Holland. “It’s Art Deco.†We’re gathered at a hotel suite in midtown with a decent view of Central Park, but the expanse of greenery isn’t as enticing to the duo as a few towering buildings along Fifth Avenue made of stainless steel and limestone. Discussing their new collaborative album, Swing Fever, will have to wait. “We’re interested in architecture,†Stewart clarifies a bit later, “because of our model railways.â€
On the surface, Stewart and Holland are an unlikely pairing. Stewart has spent the better part of the past six decades solidifying his status among the most vital and flamboyant singer-songwriters of his generation; Holland, formerly of the rock group Squeeze, is a prolific bandleader and host of the performance series Later… With Jools Holland. One is dripping with diamond rings and bracelets. The other is wearing jeans. “We’re a curious, perfect fit,†Holland admits. “Something like this can’t be forced.â€
But music, like a reverse-loop train track, can connect just about anything. Stewart, hoping to record a covers album of American standards and dissatisfied with its progress in late 2021, cold-called Holland at his home to gauge interest in doing the album together with the help of Holland’s big band. Realizing that he wasn’t, in fact, the recipient of a prank call, Holland accepted the offer from his fellow benchwork brother. The duo had a general familiarity with each other, but Swing Fever (out February 23) marked the start of a meaningful period of time together, both in and out of the studio — the result is 13 songs that honor their shared origins. “We’ve come from a similar type of place of growth in London,†Holland explains, “with relatives who were encouraging us and had music on.â€
Rod, before you gave Jools a call, what impressions did you have of each other? Were they accurate when you finally met?
Rod Stewart: I started making this album in Los Angeles. It wasn’t turning out the way I wanted it to. It was a bit too white-polite, if you know what I mean. I needed someone with a bit of edge, and this man came to mind. I knew all about his background.
Jools Holland: I’ve been following him for years. Rod has one of the greatest voices of all time. No matter what it was, or what style he sings, it all becomes one style, which is the Rod Stewart style. The only other person who could do that was Ray Charles — it didn’t matter what he sang, it became his. Frank Sinatra was similar. I’ve been listening to Rod play for years, but the more I’ve gotten to know him, the more I love him.
RS: [Puts hand on heart.] I’ve discovered we’ve come from a similar zone.
JH: It was British blues music and songs that were in our homes. When we sat down to make a record, both of us were like, What was the first music you loved? We found ourselves talking about the same things. It was very easy and pleasurable to do. We were on the same page all the time.
Do you agree with Jools’s characterization of “the Rod Stewart style�
RS: I owe a great deal, and we all do, to Black culture. All I listened to was Sam Cooke and Muddy Waters and tried to sound like them. It’s simple. If there had never been a Sam Cooke, there may never have been a Rod Stewart. That was the first guy I listened to where I was like, Wow, I want to sound something like that. I want to phrase my songs like that.
JH: Sam Cooke could sing any style of music.
RS: Gospel music. Country music.
JH: There’s only a handful of singers in the world who could do that. Some people are great singers, but they just stay in one zone. Rod is in his own zone. It’s the singer, not the song. That’s what he does.
It’s funny, I bumped into Lady Gaga at my local pub in London a while ago. She just happened to be in there with a friend. It’s not a groovy place or anything. There was a large bloke standing by her, so I reached past him to tap her on the shoulder to say hello and also say, “If you ever wanted to come on the show, it would be great to have you.†I didn’t realize that the mountain I just passed was, in fact, her security man. Within seconds he had me against the wall. “Hang on a minute, I’m trade!†She realized who I was and we had a lovely conversation. She can sing this type of stuff too. We had a chat about just that: There are only a few people who have this history. Amy Winehouse understood that as well. All of the Beatles did.
RS: Paul McCartney is a huge Fats Waller guy.
JH: People who have a great talent, even if it’s people you wouldn’t associate with this music, have a knowledge of it, like Lady Gaga. That’s what I’m trying to convey.
Two Stewarts have appeared on Later… With Jools Holland over the past three decades: Stewart Copeland and Dave Stewart. Yet no Rod. What gives?
RS: Yes, care to explain that one?
JH: We would’ve loved to have him on. We would’ve snapped him up any moment he wanted to come. You were probably away doing gigs and it didn’t fit in.
RS: I did make up for that. I was on Hootenanny last year.
JH: He illuminates the whole show and you can feel the joy of the music. It was a celebratory evening.
RS: Illuminates! I didn’t pay him to say that.
An album collaboration like this, genre notwithstanding, is still pretty novel for musicians of your stature. The only parallel I could think of is what Robert Plant and Alison Krauss have done together. Why do you think your peers don’t tend to collaborate on a fuller scale like this?
RS: That’s interesting. I’m not sure I have an answer to that.
JH: You need to play what you love and love what you play. It helped that we both love this music. Some of it, like ska elements, comes from stuff we’ve accumulated as we went through life and learned about music. When we were first sitting together and thinking about what we were going to do, Rod started singing a bit of a song, and I was like, I know this, because I’ve heard this since I was a child.
Do you view this album as a kick in the ass to your peers to also try something ambitious like this?
RS: Not everybody can sing or play this stuff. We’re blessed with curiosity. I’m lucky that I can get my teeth into it. Not many piano players can play like Jools, either. His band, especially the bass player and drummer, wow. You can’t make a swing record without a bass player and drummer like he has. It’s the fairy on the top of the Christmas tree.
I was just thinking, why is it that we knew these songs in our youth? It’s weird, innit? We both grew up in a rock-and-roll era. Somehow, whether it’s our parents or friends, these songs entered our brain boxes and stayed there. All of our songs I knew before we recorded them. Same with Jools, except one.
JH: Guilty. I didn’t know “Almost Like Being in Love.†You can’t know all the songs. When we did the arrangement, I was like, Oh, I guess this sounds nice. But when Rod put his vocals on it, suddenly it was magic and I began to love the song.
There are people who come in and out of the limelight. Rod has always been on the top of it, and I think it’s because he’s always playing new music. It doesn’t matter if the piece of music is 500 years old or five minutes old. It’s new if you blow life into it.
RS: Oh, blow life into it. I like that. That was a good quote, Jools. Listen, I just want to keep singing. I love being out with my band. I have six gorgeous-looking girls in the band. Not because they’re gorgeous, but they can all play. They’ve given me inspiration. They’re fiddlers, they’re backing singers. I couldn’t ask for anything more, except singing with Jools’s band. Hopefully we’ll do that.
JH: If this album does well, then I think we’ll do a second one. But it’s a distant dream. We both have shows booked up until the end of the year. It would be such a dream to play at Carnegie Hall or Radio City Music Hall.
RS: I’ve never played at Carnegie Hall. Can you believe that?
I loved watching the music video you two did for “Almost Like Being in Love†at a London train station, not just for the cover itself, but because of the reactions. There were young people and kids clearly surprised at how fun it was.
RS: What a compliment. I’ll miss my train just to listen to this music!
JH: There were no actors or stunt doubles, we swear. I noticed that as well. On a railway platform, you get a complete cross-section of the public.
RS: We got babies.
JH: You didn’t need any sort of explanation of what it was. It was just great. That was a lesson for me, actually.
Were there pieces of music you’ve created in the past that weren’t fully understood until you performed them live?
RS: I don’t think so, only because most of my songs were always out there on the radio. There are a lot of songs I’ve written that I haven’t put out and nobody knows about them. My songs are like my children. I gave birth to them and then I put them out there in the world and see how they do.
What’s the best unreleased song you’re sitting on right now?
RS: I’ve sent a lot of them to Ronnie Wood. I told him, “This is stuff we’ve recorded with my band, maybe the Faces would like to do it instead?†We’re still struggling to make this album. We’ll see. Some of them might see the light of day.
This is a delightful project that confirms it’s never too late to befriend or work with new people. You two must have been cold-called with great frequency through the years with opportunities you’ve declined for whatever reason. If you were given a sliding-doors moment, what do you wish you retroactively said yes to?
RS: This doesn’t answer the question, but I wish we would get a call from someone who owns a real steam engine.
I’m going to need more information.
RS: We’re model railroaders. We don’t want to buy one. It’s far too big for us. We’ve got enough on our hands with running our bands. But if we could be on the footplate behind a steam engine, I’d love it. Just smell the smoke. How did we realize we loved trains, Jools?
JH: I remember a mutual acquaintance telling me about it a few years ago. One of the first pieces of advice Rod gave me was, “You’ve also got a model railway? Where is it located?†Well, it’s a shed in my house. “How big is it?†It’s probably 12 by 15 feet. “That’s not big enough, Jools. You’ve got to put it in the biggest room you’ve got. If you have an elderly relative, kick them out.†But he was right. What happens is the biggest space you use, the happier and the more content you feel.
RS: Yeah, rock on.
JH: I didn’t make anyone in my family homeless, of course. But building a big space to put it in was the advice I followed. It makes all the difference. It was a vast expense. I constructed a building. My wife asked what I was doing. “Well, Rod told me to do this. He knows about these things, so we’re going to build this for the trains.â€
RS: A model railroad is never finished. Mine got moved all the way from Los Angeles to England. My dear wife persuaded me to do it. She said, “You’re going to be miserable without your model railroad to work on. You need to build things.†I was nervous. I didn’t think it would make it, but it did. It took 18 months to get it over and rebuild it.
Do you typically travel with a select few?
RS: Yes, always. I got some up in my room now. I travel with big suitcases for them. A model railroad goes everywhere with me.
Where do you stand on Thomas the Tank Engine?
RS: Ringo was good at it. I love it. I’ve watched it with all of my boys. I’ve got four boys and they all went through that phase, watching Thomas and his friends.
Rod, you were knighted a few years ago for your services to music and charity. What would be your pitch to King Charles for Jools to get the same honor?
RS: I could start the ball rolling. There’s a committee that you write to. They look at it and make sure he hasn’t been in prison and has paid all of his taxes. We just need a few people. You don’t ask the king. Charles can’t give it to you.
JH: Rod is an ambassador for Britain, really. He grew up in a tiny little house in London and sent up this fantastic music globally. That’s why he was knighted.
RS: Thank you, old boy. We’ll get you that CBE.
JH: I should note that I do have an OBE. Order of the Bastard’s Efforts.