We need to start talking about Vince Staples as a utility player. He’s not just a colorful rapper and deadpanning humorist but a director, writer, and actor capable of playing everything from Abbott Elementary’s layabout love interest to an animated wolf with a gigantic laser attached to its back. In his new Netflix series The Vince Staples Show, the Long Beach polymath plays a version of himself, floating in the nebulous space between well-known and unknown, wealth and weariness. “I cycle through various mediums,†Staples explains in the episode “Black Business,†in which a routine trip to the bank hangs one delirious left turn after another. Trailing its subject through a battery of unexpectedly precarious situations — an arrest for speeding, a run-in with an old neighborhood rival — The Vince Staples Show treats notoriety like a ponderous, confusing aura, a nuisance as much as a boon.
The series — which Staples co-created with Ian Edelman (Entergalactic, How to Make It in America) and Maurice Williams (Entergalactic, Broke), and executive-produced with Kenya Barris — got green-lit a few years ago but was stymied by the pandemic. In the interim, Staples released Vince Staples and Ramona Park Broke My Heart, a pair of curt but brilliant West Coast gangsta-rap albums; directed the stately, intimate performance video for the latter’s “When Sparks Flyâ€; and co-starred in 2023’s White Men Can’t Jump remake with Jack Harlow and Sinqua Walls.
The Vince Staples Show sticks thanks to Staples’s flair for suspenseful, macabre storytelling and the sturdy supporting cast he chews scenery with. Speaking on the phone earlier this month, he explained how the Netflix series fits into his larger project of connecting people and humanizing characters. I was surprised to hear someone who usually dunks on his naysayers with withering nonchalance express interest in bringing people to some common understanding of each other. Detailing forays into voice-acting, directing, and writing screenplays, he sounded like a man with a meticulous game plan. What’s obvious is that Staples is driven by an interdisciplinary love of art and happy to share his with anyone willing to engage. “I live a pretty simple life,†he explained at one point, “so I have the time to create and rummage through thoughts.â€
There’s a question that comes up repeatedly in your new show: “Who is Vince Staples?†I figured I’d take it to the source.
Just a person. Life is a product of perception. When certain factors enter the picture, they change our perception and create separation between us, the most prominent being class, money, race, political affiliation, things of that nature. Within the show, we wanted to make sure we highlighted one of those elements — most significantly fame, which is interesting because it doesn’t translate everywhere. It does for very few people. That question is just a commentary on how we view people when they have a certain level of success or money. I view people as people. From my vantage point, we’re all pretty much the same.
I’m fascinated by someone getting a Netflix show and filling it with people who don’t know who they are. It feels self-deprecating.
If you walk down the street in these major cities, even smaller cities, not that many people know who I am. I go outside every day and I’m rarely bothered. Out of 7 billion people in the world, I don’t think a majority know who I am. You have polarizing figures, extremely large artists such as Kanye West or Drake. Even on a different level, still an astronomical feat, your Tylers and Kendricks. I’m not any of those guys.
Do you like not having that degree of notoriety, that “I can’t go to the mall without getting swarmed†thing going on?
I honestly don’t think about it. It’s just not something I look for. What you get is what you get. Wherever I end up being, I’m grateful as long as I get to create and make a living off of it.
Talk about the chronology of the creation of the show. When it was announced I thought surely there had to have been a Vince Staples Show already.
The Vince Staples Show was an idea I had around 2015 or 2016. We took meetings for it and they didn’t bear results, so I hit the ground running, trying to do different things to get within the space: voice-over work, a lot of auditions, smaller roles on different television shows and films. I also took it into my own hands to continue what I was doing from a musical standpoint. Early on I had short films for my projects, and that translated into doing something similar to the show, even though it’s a different kind of thing that bears the same name.
Throughout my career people always notice — or highlighted, is a better word — the visual elements of what I put out. Over time, that made me feel like I should try my hand at seeing how far I could push it. That led to a few more meetings. We met with Kenya and he was like, “I like what you’re doing. I want to help.†He had a situation with Netflix at the time. They were interested in the show and wanted to see a full pilot script. They liked it. Then COVID happened. When we came back out of that, they were still interested.
Back in the ’90s, Ice-T was a consultant on New Jack City, and it was helpful to have him giving guidance to keep the rougher aspects of the story honest. When you’re creating a show that touches on street life, are you also thinking about how to portray that accurately for the audience?
I honestly don’t think that’s an important part of the show. Everyone understands elements of crime. This is America. We have crime everywhere. The important part to me was noticing how everything I create looks for nuances in human relationships and how things happen to us lead us down certain pathways and force us to make choices. The choices are subjective, whether right or wrong. It depends on what side of the coin you land on. The human elements and intricacies are really what make those films important, whether it’s New Jack City, GoodFellas, Ocean’s Eleven, anything that ties into an underworld. It’s about the relationships of people involved and what they do when their back is against the wall. We all can relate to that. But you do have to consult and lend your perspective. It’s a very communal thing, creating film and television.
In a world of YouTube explainers for gang beef, how do you feel about the consumption of Black pain as content?
Life is full of people digesting things they don’t relate to. We’re crowdsourcing our existence as human beings. It’s important to tell the story how you see it, if you deem yourself to be someone to tell that story or if it’s an experience that gives you a unique perspective. When you put something out into the world, when something happens historically, it’s going to be spoken about. So our things are also going to be spoken about. It’s important to take the things that we’ve seen and done and inform a new perspective. Creatively, that’s something that I’ve always tried to do. Even with the show.
I wouldn’t have guessed you were interested in this much relatability. On social media you seem very, “Maybe you get it, and so what if you don’t.â€
When you put things out into the world, they’ll be digested how they’ll be digested. You just have to do your best to create something you’re content with.
There’s a scene of you getting arrested where the police are watching the “Norf Norf†video. Do you worry about that happening in real life?
That’s happened before, so I’m not worried about it as much as I was the first time. It was just weird.
I hate to ask how often we’re looking at your actual experiences in this show.
There are a lot of experiences in the show that are derivative of actual life. Life is crazy, man.
In the bank episode you explain to a consultant that you have a deal for 15 records. Do you feel you got a better shake than young artists tend to in the major-label machine? You got to work with No I.D. on the first album. A lot of people don’t get time with a vet.
I worked with No I.D. for six months and then he left Def Jam. Even with that I did have a decent shake. I’ve had good management — I definitely got lucky to have the same management since I began. I’ve had people who’ve looked out for me since I was a teenager and taught me along the way. I’ve had good work ethic, and I had a plan to do what I wanted to do creatively. Whatever came with that I was willing to accept. Yeah, there are a lot of unfair deals, and the deal structure of the music business isn’t the best. We’ve seen a lot of changes in the past few years based on a shift in the marketplace. A lot of these companies are forming, folding, becoming desperate. There’s a lot of unfairness in the music business.
Rick Ross was in an episode of your show for 30 seconds and managed to get Luc Belaire and lemon-pepper references in. Are these his terms?
No, I wrote that. That was in the script. The point of that was to showcase contrast. You have Vince entering this new world kind of having a moment of vulnerability. A door has shut in his face. Rick Ross ends up being a person who can lend him some advice. Rick Ross has had a successful career, but I feel like people don’t recognize him for his business acumen and the deals he’s made. It was important to show the nuance of both characters.
Last year I spoke to Danny Brown, who is getting into comedy and feeling like there’s a lot he has to learn. Were there any reservations about stepping out of your comfort zone for the show?
I wouldn’t necessarily say so, solely because there were so many people involved. I’ve had a great writing room, great production, partnerships that were very informative, and also friends that have helped along the way. Every time I worked on something or every time I was around people who worked in film or television, I would always ask questions. It was a long process. I tried to figure this thing out almost ten years ago, so I had a lot of time to learn.
The last time I interviewed you was for a 2013 Fader issue around the release of Stolen Youth with Mac Miller. It seemed like you had better things to do than making music. It’s incredible to see you on Netflix years later. Did you always want to branch out into a multi-platform career?
I didn’t grow up wanting to do any of these things, but I’m extremely grateful for the opportunity and the starting point that I had and it’s made me open to exploring different parts of creativity because that helps me learn more about myself. I’ve never been anti seeing what the world had to offer, especially coming from the background that I come from. Music became an opportunity for me to change my viewpoint on life, and led me to other things. I approached them the same way I approached music, which was, “Why not?†My friendship with Mac came at a very important time in my life. He made me feel as if I shouldn’t quit in the middle of the journey.
Are you mindful of other television shows created around musicians blurring the lines between real life and the industry? Do you watch Dave and Atlanta?
They’re great for music in general. There’s always been a through-line between hip-hop and sitcoms, from Fresh Prince and The Jamie Foxx Show to Martin focusing on a radio DJ. It’s a continuation of those things. Moesha being played by Brandy made her affinity important to the show.
As a rapper diving into film and TV, who are your acting GOATs at that intersection?
Nobody, to be honest. I don’t mean that from a negative standpoint. So many people have done the thing. You got Eve, Missy Elliott, although that was a different kind of television. Bow Wow, T.I., Tone Loc, Ludacris, Eminem, Mark Wahlberg, RZA, LL Cool J, Queen Latifah, Will Smith. Mos Def and Ice Cube reached great heights. Tupac. We learned from those people that it’s actually possible to transition. I’m just happy to be able to do as much as I can.
What were your favorite shows growing up?
Whatever was on the TV. It was mostly reruns. I didn’t know what time or what day anything came on. I watched with my grandparents and ended up catching a lot of Twilight Zone. That’s a good memory of mine. The Andy Griffith Show. I really liked The Simpsons. As I got older, Breaking Bad, The Good Place, and Utopia, a British series. If we’re talking sitcoms: Fresh Prince, Martin, Moesha.
Talk about playing Maurice on Abbott Elementary. What’s it like working with Quinta?
I’d never really met Quinta. Probably seen her in passing once or twice before that. That was a big role and a big opportunity. I was very grateful to be a part of their show, especially not having a lot of time in the space. The way Quinta runs a set and the way she runs a writers’ room, the table reads — everything about that experience was so fun, organized, and professional. Everybody bought in. I learned a lot seeing the way they run their ship over there.
Will we see Maurice again?
I don’t know, man, but if we do or if we don’t, I feel like the way it was written out was just perfect. It was open-ended with a lot of closure. Just great writing overall. We want to try to find a way to get to that level as well.
You co-starred in the White Men Can’t Jump remake. What’s your favorite Jack Harlow song?
I’ve known Jack since he was a kid. We used to do shows together. My favorite is something off Jackman, probably. I like “Denver.†“Denver†is cool.
You stay booked but we never really see you in anything terrible. You have discernment. Have had it. How do you maintain a solid catalogue and filmography? Are you thinking very deeply about what you do and don’t commit to?
No, especially when it comes to film and television. There’s so many things I haven’t gotten. It’s not a matter of having the pick of the litter. We’re not at that point yet. Any opportunity that I get, I try to make sure I take it extremely seriously, work hard, and take the steps to be good. It’s not easy. When you have a chance to be a part of something someone creates, you want to give it the same care you want your stuff to be given. That’s where I’m at with it. Just making sure I’m doing the best I can to create something that’s next level, as far as my performances, as far as my music. I want to make sure I’m doing something great.
You posted about new music a few weeks ago. What’s in the works?
I’m always making music. Music takes five minutes to make, so I always have songs. Right now we’re just trying to see how the show turns out.
When are you getting back in the studio with Schoolboy Q? “Ride Out†makes me want to hulk out to this day. We need a sequel.
I talk to Q all the time. His album Blue Lips is really good. I hope a lot of people go check that out because he’s been working really hard and he’s great. That’s the homie. Q is a great person to bounce ideas off or even to listen to things that you do. It’ll happen when it happens, but we definitely always stay in contact and he’s very supportive of everything I’m doing, as am I to him.
I appreciate how your music keeps people guessing. In 2017, Big Fish Theory got a mixed response. But since then we’ve heard “Just Wanna Rock,†“Hillbillies,†and Honestly, Nevermind — everybody seems to now appreciate a rapper in a dance-music pocket. Did it frustrate you that some folks fronted on your record?
Not at all. I honestly don’t even think about it.
Big Fish inspired one of my favorite tweets of yours, where you describe SOPHIE chain-smoking in the studio in a bubble jacket. I think the songs you two worked on together are some of your best.
I met SOPHIE on tour with Flume quite early just opening up for people. We were in Australia sitting and trying to craft something unique, taking things she had and finding a way to make it work within how I viewed things in “Yeah Right.†“745†with Jimmy Edgar was a beat that SOPH heard and had me in mind. I met Jimmy through her and got the beat.
SOPHIE was a good friend and a great producer, just someone who’s hyperaware of what you’re trying to create and extremely helpful. It was a pleasure to create with SOPHIE. Also, if SOPHIE didn’t pass people wouldn’t be asking me about the music. I didn’t get one question about SOPHIE’s production until she passed away. That’s just what I’m saying as well.
I would’ve asked.
I get that. I’m just speaking from my experiences. I do hear you.
Watching your show, I realized there aren’t that many rap-music cues. One of the first ones is MoneySign Suede from L.A., who was killed last year. I wonder if you were a fan or knew the guy.
I didn’t know him. He was relatively young. I did enjoy his music.
How do we break the cycle of labels profiting off of artists’ deaths?
It’s not about hip-hop. It’s not about labels profiting off death. It’s the social currency of violence, death, negativity. We consume it almost like it’s an addiction. When people die, then their stories become interesting because of how they end it. We’re desensitized. We’re put off by positive outlooks. When someone dies, we want to know why. Death is a headline. We gravitate towards headlines. It is a cultural thing, not necessarily a financial thing.
What rappers are you bumping?
I honestly don’t listen to much music. I never really have.
It’s really fascinating that we barely hear your music in a show sort of about your life.
A lot of the music in the show is diegetic, meaning that it exists within the environment. There weren’t many moments that were calling for that throughout the show. There is a needle drop. Yeah, there’s one. I think there’s one or maybe two references to my music throughout the show. People don’t just come up to me playing my songs or talking about my songs like that. I’m not that level of artist. So that’s how it made sense to play it.
I feel like you would be surprised who’s bumping your music.
No, I wouldn’t. Trust me. I wouldn’t at all. I have multi-platinum songs and millions of followers across all platforms of streaming services. So I wouldn’t be surprised if people heard my music.
Yes! The extreme humility has been throwing me off. But at the end of the day I’m happy you’re telling the stories you’re telling with the show.
I look at it like this, man: If people watch, that’s all you can really ask for. Anything after that is all a perk, so to say. It’s a plus because you make these things and people have their own lives and they’re taking time out of their lives to watch or digest the thing you’ve created. If people like it, they like it. If they don’t, they don’t. I’ll take the note and try to learn what to do differently the next time.