Bitesize and Sounds revision podcasts | Overview
Revise GCSE English Literature by listening to these podcasts from Bitesize and BBC Sounds.
BBC Sounds is where you can catch the latest music tracks, discover binge-worthy podcasts or listen to live radio, all in one place.
Listen on the BBC Sounds app when you're out and about, or listen at home as part of your revision.
Join hosts Hollie McNish and Polarbear to get to grips with the plot, characters and themes from Frankenstein, as well as key quotes to use in your exams.
Supercharge your revision with more podcasts for GCSE English literature and GCSE Biology
Episodes are roughly ten minutes long and there are up to nine episodes in each series.
Episode 1 - Introduction
Frankenstein is a novel written by Mary Shelley in 1818. It tells the story of Victor Frankenstein and his creature, while looking at what it means to be human.
MUSIC: [BBC Sounds intro music plays]
PRESENTER: BBC Sounds. Music. Radio. Podcasts.
MUSIC: [organ music plays]
HOLLIE McNISH: Hi and welcome to our Bitesize English Literature podcast. My name is Hollie McNish, I'm a writer and a poet, and in this series I'm going to take you through the texts for your GCSE English Literature and help you prepare for your exam. This series is all about Mary Shelley's Gothic novel "Frankenstein" and over the next seven episodes we're going to focus on the key themes: knowledge, isolation, prejudice, justice, ambition, and nature verses nurture.But before we get into it, in this episode we're gonna talk about the plot, introduce you to the main characters, and find out a bit about the author and the time she was writing.
MUSIC: [Gothic music ends]
HOLLIE McNISH: Helping me with this series is the incredible writer Steven Camden. He writes novels and he also performs poetry under the name Polarbear.
STEVEN CAMDEN: Hi.
HOLLIE McNISH: Steven, kick us off. Why don't you tell me what you think is the most interesting thing about the novel "Frankenstein".
STEVEN CAMDEN: For me it's the fact that Mary Shelley raises so many interesting questions by the themes without giving you definite answers. [HOLLIE: Oh, nice.]So just when you think you're like, oh yeah, I know it all, there's always another side to the story. You know?
HOLLIE McNISH: That's true! Yeah! [STEVEN: Yeah.] That's true.
STEVEN CAMDEN: It feels real.
HOLLIE McNISH: Well, we're gonna talk about the plot in a bit more detail, but first let's set the scene. "Frankenstein" is about a man who creates life but it goes really wrong. We're gonna hear a section from the text where Victor Frankenstein, the scientist, is telling his story to the explorer Robert Walton. He's explaining how obsessed he was with creating life. So, listen to the words he uses, and it might be handy to have a pen so you can write down any of the most important or interesting words you hear.
CLIP
VICTOR FRANKENSTEIN: Every night I was possessed of a slow fever, and I became nervous to a most painful degree: the fall of a leaf startled me and I
END OF CLIP
HOLLIE McNISH: A very dramatic clip.
STEVEN CAMDEN: Yeah.
HOLLIE McNISH: He calls himself a "wreck".
STEVEN CAMDEN: He calls himself a "wreck". His life is in pieces. He has hit the rocks and it's not gone well for him at all.
HOLLIE McNISH: It's not gone well. And remember the setting; like, "wreck" is a good word here, isn't it? [STEVEN: Mm-hmm.] 'Cause, "wreck", there's this idea of shipwreck, and he's a wreck. Erm, and then this quote: "shunned my fellow creatures." So could you explain to us what "shunned" is and what that-, what that's about?
STEVEN CAMDEN: Well, "shunned" is-, "shunned" is pushing people away, right? So "shunned" is, like, kind of separating yourself and not wanting anyone else around you at all. [HOLLIE: Yeah.]And that's what it drove him to: it drove him to isolate himself by literally pushing everyone away.
MUSIC: [Gothic music plays]
HOLLIE McNISH: First, the really important thing that you need to remember about the novel "Frankenstein" is that Frankenstein, Victor Frankenstein, is the name of the scientist; the creature is unnamed. [STEVEN: No.] The creature is not called Frankenstein! [STEVEN: Nope!] Frankenstein is the scientist.
MUSIC: [Gothic music plays]
HOLLIE McNISH: So we're going to briefly go over the plot because a lot happens in this text. It begins at the North Pole, where the explorer, Robert Walton, and his crew come across Victor Frankenstein. Now, Victor Frankenstein is in pretty bad shape and he tells Robert Walton this story.We find out about Victor's childhood. He's from Geneva in Switzerland. He has a happy family, from what we hear, and from a young age he's obsessed with science. He goes to university and he starts secretly trying to create life in a very ambitious search for knowledge and glory.
STEVEN CAMDEN: He steals body parts and electrocutes them. [HOLLIE: Lovely.] But as soon as he succeeds in bringing this thing to life, the creature he's made, he finds it hideous and he runs away.The creature is alone. Right? It stumbles off. It comes across some villagers; they also react in horror when they see him, so he learns to hide.He comes across a family, the DeLaceys. He watches them, and through them he learns to talk. But when he approaches them for help they attack him and he has to run away. He searches for his creator Victor Frankenstein and finds Frankenstein's younger brother William. He murders William and frames Justine, a servant and family friend, for the crime. Justine is found guilty and sentenced to death.The creature begs Victor Frankenstein to make him a companion. And at first Victor agrees, travelling across Europe to complete his task, but he changes his mind and destroys the unfinished new creature, and the original creature takes revenge, first murdering Frankenstein's best friend Henry Clerval, then his wife Elizabeth on their wedding night. Finally Frankenstein is driven to hunt the creature across the Arctic, and this is how he meets Robert Walton, the explorer.Frankenstein falls ill and dies. The creature sees that Victor has died and promises to end his own life, walking off into the snowy abyss.
MUSIC: [Gothic music chord]
HOLLIE McNISH: Okay, let's look in a bit more detail at the main characters. So, we've got Victor Frankenstein. He's a scientist. Remember that; he's the scientist! We'll say it again in a lot of the other podcasts! He's the creator of the creature. He's in search of glory. He's obsessed with creating life but never quite admits to the mistakes he's made while pursuing this ambition.One question about this character is: who is the real monster? Is it Victor Frankenstein or is it the creature he gives life to? Both refer to themself as monsters throughout. [STEVEN: Mm-hmm.]Then we've got the–
STEVEN CAMDEN: Creature.
HOLLIE McNISH: Creature.
STEVEN CAMDEN: The creature is abandoned the moment he's born, shunned by everyone; everyone rejects him. He's really clever. He teaches himself language. He finds books and learns to read. And then through the process of being shunned by everyone he becomes vengeful. And deciding to take revenge, he murders Frankenstein's brother, best friend, and wife.He's completely alone. After he's killed Frankenstein's brother William he tries to bargain with Frankenstein and begs to have a companion so he isn't lonely. And he ends up saying he'll take his own life after Frankenstein dies.
HOLLIE McNISH: And walks off.
STEVEN CAMDEN: And walks off into the ice.
HOLLIE McNISH: Elizabeth Lavenza. So Elizabeth is one of two female characters. And we'll chat about why that's important a little bit later on, especially in the episode on Ambition. So Elizabeth is adopted by the Frankenstein family. She marries Victor Frankenstein but is murdered on their wedding night by the creature.She's always described as good and kind and – and perfect; she's-, she's one of these idealised female characters.
STEVEN CAMDEN: Yeah. William Frankenstein, Victor Frankenstein's younger, beloved little brother, a child who encounters the creature, calls the creature an ogre, and is then murdered by him.
HOLLIE McNISH: Justine Moritz. So Justine is a servant but is also described as a friend of the Frankenstein family by Victor Frankenstein. She's framed for the murder of Frankenstein's little brother William and ends up falsely confessing to the murder out of fear. She's sentenced to death, and she is a great character to look at in terms of the themes of justice and also prejudice.
Robert Walton.
STEVEN CAMDEN: Robert Walton, he is the explorer who starts the story: he's writing letters home to his sister, and he encounters Frankenstein in the North Pole. Frankenstein tells him the whole story too. He's kind of a mirror to Victor Frankenstein in many ways; he's also on a quest for glory, but thankfully he kinda learns the lesson that Victor didn't learn after hearing what Victor has to say.
MUSIC: [Gothic music plays]
HOLLIE McNISH: So that's the plot and the characters. It's also important to know a little bit about the context. So, who was the author, who was Mary Shelley, and what was happening when the book was written?
STEVEN CAMDEN: Okay, Mary Shelley was only 18 when she started writing, and the novel was published in 1818. [HOLLIE: Perfect!] Perfect, right?! [HOLLIE: Yeah!]Right, "Frankenstein" is a Gothic novel. So, Gothic novels use ideas about the supernatural to explore what it means to be human. Isolation is a really frequent theme of the Gothic novel, so make sure you get "Gothic novel" – mention the "Gothic novel" when you write an exam in terms of the time and the context.
HOLLIE McNISH: Yeah, and if you go to the Bitesize website then you can find more information about terms such as "Gothic novel". [STEVEN: Mm-hmm.]Er, the story is told in letters. [STEVEN: Yeah.] So this is also often a feature of Gothic novels.
STEVEN CAMDEN: Like the setting is.
HOLLIE McNISH: The setting [STEVEN: Yeah.] is typical of Gothic novels.
STEVEN CAMDEN: Mountains; ice floes; big, lonely, dangerous, intimidating, scary places which fit in with the kind of tradition of Gothic novels and fit perfectly for this story.
HOLLIE McNISH: So have a little break. Close your eyes. Imagine the setting: Gothic novel. Imagine these big – as you say: lonely; dangerous; ice – ooh, cold.
STEVEN CAMDEN: You're on the ice. Yeah.
HOLLIE McNISH: As well as a Gothic novel, "Frankenstein" is often seen as the first science fiction novel. So Mary Shelley took the Gothic tropes, the Gothic ideas, things that people were used to in Gothic novels, and gave them a new spin.
STEVEN CAMDEN: Yeah. And it's set at the end of the 18th century, so we're coming – this is the aftermath of the Industrial Revolution now, which is also a really good term for your exam. The Industrial Revolution, a time of massive change in terms of, erm, machinery, business – science, really. And so you've got all these possible questions and fears and insecurities flying around as well at the time, which all feed into what makes a story so powerful.
HOLLIE McNISH: And one of the things specifically scientists were talking about at this time was whether it was possible to bring the dead back to life, experimenting on animals to test their theories, which is–
STEVEN CAMDEN: Yeah, using electricity, right, to, like, charge 'em… ah, man.(?)
HOLLIE McNISH: Using electricity. And there is more about the Gothic novel and more about the Industrial Revolution all on the Bitesize website, so go and have a look at that.
MUSIC: [Gothic music plays]
HOLLIE McNISH: Right, Polarbear, a very quick plot recap. Go.
STEVEN CAMDEN: Victor Frankenstein, ambitious scientist, starts messing around with body parts, creates a creature, is terrified of it, runs off. Creature staggers off, teaches itself how to read and how humans work to teach it how to speak; wants to kind of make contact with people and is completely shunned [HOLLIE: Yeah.] and abused by e-, e-, at every turn.
HOLLIE McNISH: By who? Any example?
STEVEN CAMDEN: Vill-, villagers; er, the DeLacey family, which he watches and learns from. Erm, tries to make contact. Meets Victor Frankenstein, his creator's younger brother. Kills the younger brother. Frames Justine, who then gets executed for the murder. The creature asks – begs for a companion from Victor. Victor agrees to make a companion, a female companion, for the creature; changes his mind midway through; destroys it. The creature sees that; in revenge, kills Elizabeth, Victor's wife, on their wedding night. [HOLLIE: Ogh!]Victor becomes obsessed with tracking the monster down for his own revenge; it takes him all the way to the North Pole, where he encounters Walton who's writing these letters. Victor ultimately dies on Walton's ship and the creature walks off to die alone in the snow.
HOLLIE McNISH: Oopff! One murder missed; who was it?
STEVEN CAMDEN: Oh, his best friend, Henry Clerval.
HOLLIE McNISH: Great. That was brilliant. [laughs] That was great! Excellent plot recap. If I were you I'd go back, I'd listen to that 50 times if you don't remember the plot! That was brilliant. So there's key terms: Gothic novel; it's written in letters; Industrial Revolution. Go have a look on the Bitesize website to find out more about them. If it was me I would try to just remember an introduction which had, like, all of these key themes in it; so something like: Mary Shelley's "Frankenstein" is a Gothic novel written in letter form in the aftermath of the Industrial Revolution which some say is the first science fiction novel.
MUSIC: [music plays]
HOLLIE McNISH: Get all those facts into your exams. Thanks so much for listening to this Bitesize English Literature podcast. You can find even more help and advice from the Bitesize team; just search "Bitesize" on BBC Sounds. In the next episode we're going to be talking about the theme of knowledge.
MUSIC: [Gothic music and then organ music plays]
[END]
Listen on BBC Sounds
What is the first name of Frankenstein, the scientist who creates the creature?
Victor Frankenstein is the full name of the scientist who creates the creature. The creature has no name.
Episode 2 - Knowledge
A key theme in Frankenstein is the pursuit of knowledge, which leads to both the creation and destruction of life.
MUSIC: [BBC Sounds intro music plays]
PRESENTER: BBC Sounds. Music. Radio. Podcasts.
MUSIC: [organ music plays]
HOLLIE McNISH: Hello and welcome to our Bitesize English Literature podcast. My name is Hollie McNish, I'm a writer and a poet, and across seven episodes I'm gonna talk through the key themes in Mary Shelley's novel "Frankenstein" to help you prepare for your GCSE in English Literature.If you need a refresher on the plot, go back and listen to Episode 1, where we go through the plot and the characters and the time Shelley was writing. Repetition is really important to help you learn, so it's a good idea to listen to each episode a few times to get the information really locked into your brain. And helping me get into the world of "Frankenstein" is the amazing writer Steven Camden, who performs under the name Polarbear.
STEVEN CAMDEN: Hello.
HOLLIE McNISH: Hello.
MUSIC: [Gothic music plays]
HOLLIE McNISH: For the next six episodes we'll talk through the key themes. We'll break it down character by character and give you some quotes to remember. So "Frankenstein" is the story of scientist Victor Frankenstein whose obsessive search for knowledge leads him to create a creature who goes on to destroy Frankenstein's life.In this episode we're focusing on the theme of Knowledge because it's one of the major themes in "Frankenstein".Steven, have you ever heard the phrase "a little knowledge is a dangerous thing"?
STEVEN CAMDEN: Yep, I have. And it means that if you only know a little bit about something you might get overconfident, right, think you're brilliant, [HOLLIE: Yeah.] think you know everything, and then that leaves you to make a big mistake; like our friend, scientist, Victor Frankenstein.
HOLLIE McNISH: Beware. [laughs] Beware!We're going to hear a section from the text. The explorer Robert Walton is stuck in ice and has come across Victor Frankenstein who has ventured out into the Arctic.Walton has explained that he wants to carry on his search for knowledge despite the danger of this quest, and this is Victor Frankenstein trying to warm him that searching for knowledge has ruined his life.
CLIP
VICTOR FRANKENSTEIN: Why do we do these things?
ROBERT WALTON: What things?
VICTOR FRANKENSTEIN: These explorations.You seek for knowledge and wisdom, as I once did; and I ardently hope that the gratification of your wishes may not be a serpent to sting you, as mine has been.
END OF CLIP
HOLLIE McNISH: Whoa. The quote–
STEVEN CAMDEN: Yeah.
HOLLIE McNISH: [laughs] The quote from that clip that I…
STEVEN CAMDEN: Go on, do it.
HOLLIE McNISH: …think is a great one, I will try to do it in almost as dramatic a voice as that. No, I won't."You seek for knowledge and wisdom, as I once did; and I ardently hope that the gratification of your wishes may not be a serpent to sting you,
STEVEN CAMDEN: You love the alliteration as well, don't you?
HOLLIE McNISH: I love it. Like, I love this. I think it's a good idea, now, to have a pen and paper. To be honest, listening to all these podcasts, I think it's a good idea to always have a pen and paper with you so you can write down the most important words. I do love alliteration. So alliteration is repeating the same letter at the beginning of a word. So "serpent to sting you" has a little bit of alliteration, but a little bit is enough to write about in your exam.They really, really love it when you discuss language in an exam. It's really important to discuss language in your GCSE English exam. And this quote I think is super for it. So, "a serpent to sting you", these are the important words of this quote for me. And for me it's got a great rhythm, and I would probably say this over and again, "a serpent to sting you, a serpent to sting you, a serpent to sting you." It's kinda like–
STEVEN CAMDEN: Can I have a go? Can I–
HOLLIE McNISH: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
STEVEN CAMDEN: Can I-, can I try say the-, the whole thing? Like–
HOLLIE McNISH: Yeah, I love it.
STEVEN CAMDEN: "You seek for knowledge and wisdom, as I once did; and I ardently hope that the gratification of your wishes may not be a serpent to sting you, as mine has been."It's a warning, right? It's… it's Frankenstein, who's been through a lot - it's early in the book, but he already has been through so much before that we then learn. [HOLLIE: Yeah.]And he's-, he's lost everything, and he's trying to warn Robert Walton against behaving like he did – 'cause he's been stung, right? He's been stung!
HOLLIE McNISH: He has! And the language really adds to it. Mary Shelley uses this-, this language specifically here because it is a warning. And the "serpent to sting you" is very visual.Close your eyes. Imagine the serpent stinging you! Imagine knowledge as this massive serpent. Erm, you can see it. It's a really visual warning from Mary Shelley.
MUSIC: [organ music sounds]
HOLLIE McNISH: So now we're gonna break it down character by character, looking at what they tell us about knowledge, and give you a quote to remember for each. So first up, Victor Frankenstein, the scientist, because he's on a quest for knowledge, isn't he?
STEVEN CAMDEN: Yeah. But there is always mixed in with it this ambition, this glory-seeking of ego, potentially, right? So it's always conflicting, like, what he's really driven by.
HOLLIE McNISH: Yeah, the motive is really conflicting, isn't it? [STEVEN: Yes.] And Victor goes to university; he's really interested in scientific discovery, and he starts to get really obsessed with creating life. He seems to think it's gonna be a beautiful thing, if you can achieve that; and he starts all these experiments with electricity. But he does it in secret, which is gonna be important in the next episode because we're talking about isolation.But he is quite sneaky with it. You get the feeling that maybe he knows something might – could go wrong?
STEVEN CAMDEN: Exactly. And also, he's doing it for himself as much as for the greater good.There are plenty of quotes, and one that I really like is Frankenstein saying, "What glory would attend the discovery?" That word "glory": [HOLLIE: Yeah.] glory is the spotlight; is the fame; is like, yeah, you're not so altruistic and, you know, just generous for the human race, are you?
HOLLIE McNISH: No. And this is before he's created the creature. Yeah, the word "glory" is a big, big word for knowledge, isn't it?
STEVEN CAMDEN: Completely. Essential, I think.
MUSIC: [organ music plays]
HOLLIE McNISH: The historical context here is also really important. So, 1818 – [chuckles] remember your 18s! [STEVEN: Mm-hmm.] 1818, when "Frankenstein" was published, it was a time when scientific knowledge and geographical discovery and technological change were being challenged and pushed all the time, called the Industrial Revolution.You can look on the Bitesize website. There's more information about the Industrial Revolution on there. But it was when things changed really, really quickly.
STEVEN CAMDEN: Really fast, and people were having to adjust, within generations and between generations, to, like, so much new stuff that, yeah, well, it must have been terrifying.
HOLLIE McNISH: Yeah, terrifying. And the idea that this might come at a social cost. Like, what will happen to humanity?
STEVEN CAMDEN: Yeah. And the responsibility that comes with it, that idea of what you do with that power, who gets to wield that, and what can go wrong.
MUSIC: [Gothic music plays]
HOLLIE McNISH: Okay, so the next character is the creature. He is such a fast learner.
STEVEN CAMDEN: Mm-hmm.
HOLLIE McNISH: He learns language and he learns all about the kind of human ways, human compassion, friendship. He learns a lot of this by watching the DeLaceys.
STEVEN CAMDEN: Yeah.
HOLLIE McNISH: And this has been put in – Mary Shelley, remember, the author, has written a tech(?); Mary Shelley has put this family, the DeLaceys, in to show us the creature watching somebody else and learning about the world.
STEVEN CAMDEN: Yeah. He learns about himself in relation to other people as well, right: this idea that he-, when he tries to make contact, before he meets the DeLaceys, he tries to approach villagers and he gets run out of town [HOLLIE: Yeah.] and, like, abused, and they think he's hideous; and he learns – it's almost like he-, that's where he learns he is a creature and he is a different thing.
HOLLIE McNISH: The creature is a really interesting character to look at when we're talking about knowledge because everything he learns is not very positive.
STEVEN CAMDEN: It makes him-, it makes him more alone, right? [HOLLIE: Yeah.] It makes him sadder.
HOLLIE McNISH: This is quite a good character to question what we think Shelley, Mary Shelley, is trying to say about knowledge. What is she saying about knowledge in the context of the creature? [STEVEN: Mm-hmm.] Because–
STEVEN CAMDEN: Well, it can make you aware of what you don't have, right? So the-, the more the creature learns the more he s-, he sees what he doesn't have and it makes him kind of sadder.
HOLLIE McNISH: Yeah.
STEVEN CAMDEN: There's that quote where the creature literally says, "Sorrow only increased with knowledge." So it's like one of those graphs where it's, like, the more I found out the more I realised I don't have, the more alone I feel and the sadder I am.
HOLLIE McNISH: "Sorrow only increased with knowledge." And the more you know about things that you can't have the sadder it can make you. We have that every day. Everyone can relate to that.
STEVEN CAMDEN: Completely. And there's that image of, you know, the-, the water as a mirror: like, when the creature sees itself and puts two and two together; right, because I look like this this is why people don't want anything to do with me.
HOLLIE McNISH: Yeah. Awful.
STEVEN CAMDEN: Oh, man.
HOLLIE McNISH: It's terrible. [STEVEN: Yeah.] So knowledge and the episode on prejudice, listen to all of the episodes, it's all intertwined, isn't it? And this comes especially when the creature is telling his story. He's watching this family, the DeLaceys, sees himself in the clear pool; 'cause he has this knowledge of judging people's appearances, it makes him feel sad.
STEVEN CAMDEN: Yep.
HOLLIE McNISH: And if he didn't have that knowledge he could have looked at himself in the pool and been like, "Cool."
STEVEN CAMDEN: "I'm all right."
MUSIC: [organ music plays]
HOLLIE McNISH: The final character we're gonna talk about is the explorer Robert Walton. So he is the person that Victor Frankenstein tells his story to, and he wants to discover the world; he's off exploring in the Arctic. Robert Walton, Victor Frankenstein and the creature are the three characters that are really good to compare in terms of the theme of knowledge.Robert Walton, he personifies this search for geographical knowledge. And at the time the book was written we knew much less about the world, particularly remote places like the North Pole. And the story takes us all around Europe. Victor Frankenstein is from Geneva; he goes to university in Germany; he travels all around the UK as well. And Robert Walton at the start of the story says, "I preferred glory to every enticement that wealth placed in my path."Basically, he could have had a comfortable life; he was rich, but glory has sent him on this journey. So this is-, is such a good place to start, isn't it?
STEVEN CAMDEN: It's ambition again, yeah, yeah.
HOLLIE McNISH: Glory.
STEVEN CAMDEN: Completely. It's the glory of it and wanting more, and wanting to be the person who did it, that put the flag in these things, what drives… humans.
HOLLIE McNISH: And what do you think Mary Shelley – always, always get back to the author – what do you think Mary Shelley is saying about glory? 'Cause it's glory for both of these characters, Walton and Frankenstein.
STEVEN CAMDEN: She's not saying that knowledge, or having-, even having ambition, is a bad thing, but maybe too much of it or the motivations behind it and letting it get out of control is never gonna lead you down a good road, is it?
HOLLIE McNISH: No, it can have disastrous consequences–
STEVEN CAMDEN: Completely.
HOLLIE McNISH: Basically, just be careful.
STEVEN CAMDEN: Yeah.
HOLLIE McNISH: [laughs]
MUSIC: [organ music plays]
HOLLIE McNISH: Okay, so before we finish, let's go through the main points one more time. So, Mary Shelley isn't saying that knowledge is bad, like you said, but they have to balance it against other things, like compassion and responsibility. Victor Frankenstein is on the hunt for undiscovered scientific knowledge. The creature is learning about the world around him and fascinated with the world and languages.Walton?
STEVEN CAMDEN: Is physically exploring the world, geographically.
HOLLIE McNISH: Is exploring the world. So, quotes again: you need-, you need quotes for your exam!
STEVEN CAMDEN: Yeah, good one: "Knowledge is a serpent that stings." But you wanna say that 'cause you like the alliteration thing.
HOLLIE McNISH: Yeah. "Knowledge is a serpent that stings, serpent that stings." So, er, what's your quo–
STEVEN CAMDEN: Well, the creature-, the creature actually saying, "Sorrow only increased with knowledge." So those two things going in hand: the more knowledge the creature gains the more alone and the sadder he feels.
HOLLIE McNISH: Not knowing things can be blissful, [STEVEN: Yeah.] and knowing too much can be terrible! "Sorrow only increased with knowledge." And Frankenstein and Walton are hunting for knowledge, but maybe what they really want is glory. So the word "glory", put it in quote marks.
STEVEN CAMDEN: Exactly, but the truth of glory, [HOLLIE: Yeah.] which is really that sense of, like, you know, the pride of it.
MUSIC: [music plays]
HOLLIE McNISH: So, thanks for listening to this Bitesize English Literature podcast. There is more help and advice available from the Bitesize team; just search "Bitesize" on BBC Sounds. In the next episode we're gonna be talking about isolation.
MUSIC: [Gothic music plays and then organ music plays]
[END]
Listen on BBC Sounds
What is the name of the family that the creature watches and learns from?
The creature watches the De Lacey family, learning language and more from them.
Episode 3 - Isolation
Isolation runs throughout the text in different forms. For some characters, isolation is a choice and for others isolation is forced upon them.
MUSIC: [BBC Sounds intro music plays]
PRESENTER: BBC Sounds. Music. Radio. Podcasts.
MUSIC: [organ music plays, then Gothic music plays]
HOLLIE McNISH: Hello, I'm Hollie McNish, and this is the Bitesize English Literature podcast. This series is all about Mary Shelley's Gothic novel "Frankenstein". I'm gonna take you through the key themes so you'll be ready for your English Literature GCSE.And I'm not alone because helping me is the writer Steven Camden, who is also known as Polarbear.
STEVEN CAMDEN: Hello, Hollie. How're you doing?
HOLLIE McNISH: I'm very well, thank you. [STEVEN: Yeah?] Especially now.
STEVEN CAMDEN: Are we in exam mode?
HOLLIE McNISH: Yeah! I'm in exam mode! [STEVEN: Good.] I'm in full exam mode! [STEVEN: Good.]So if you're like me and you find yourself getting distracted by your phone or your laptop when you listen to podcasts, try putting some headphones in, sticking your phone in your pocket and going for a walk, or maybe lie down and relax, and listen to us chatting about this text while closing your eyes.
MUSIC: [Gothic music plays]
HOLLIE McNISH: So "Frankenstein" is the story of scientist Victor Frankenstein, who creates a living creature he finds so hideous that he's shunned by his creator and everyone else who sees him, forcing this creature to hide away from people and to live alone.The creature's loneliness turns into hatred, and he takes revenge on his creator, Victor Frankenstein.If you need a recap on the plot, go back and listen again to Episode 1, where we go into it in a bit more detail.Isolation is one of the key themes in "Frankenstein", and that's what we're gonna look at in this episode. Now, being on your own doesn't always make you feel lonely, but loneliness is a powerful emotion. Would you say so?
STEVEN CAMDEN: Of course.
HOLLIE McNISH: And it's so different: loneliness and being alone is so different. [STEVEN: Yeah.] But the sort of isolation we're talking about here is that he is shunned.
STEVEN CAMDEN: Exactly, the choice taken away; other people pushing you away, not wanting anything to do with you. And I think where that leads you, the steps that follow it: feeling different, feeling outcast, like you don't fit, and ultimately leading to feeling like a monster.
HOLLIE McNISH: So we're gonna hear something from the text now. The creature has already murdered Frankenstein's little brother William. He finds Victor Frankenstein and begs him to create him a female companion, someone else like him so he doesn't have to suffer isolation. Listen out for the pain in his voice in this clip.
CLIP
THE CREATURE: I am alone and miserable. Man will not associate with me. But one as deformed as myself would not totally deny herself to me. You must create for me a female.
VICTOR FRANKENSTEIN: I refuse. Shall I create another like yourself whose joint wickedness might desolate the world?
THE CREATURE: If any being felt emotions of benevolence towards me I should return them a hundredfold.
CLIP ENDS
HOLLIE McNISH: You can hear the pain in his voice.
STEVEN CAMDEN: For sure.
HOLLIE McNISH: For sure. And he says, "I am alone and miserable." And it's a–
STEVEN CAMDEN: It's a good one; a good one to remember, right?
HOLLIE McNISH: It's a really good one to remember. And it's a good idea to have a pen and paper so you can write any important quotes or words down. So before we move on to talk about some of the other characters and how isolation affects them, let's stay with the creature and talk a bit more about his isolation and a bit more about that quote, "I am alone and miserable." Say it over and over as many times as you need!So this is when the creature has already killed Victor Frankenstein's younger brother William Frankenstein and he's framed Victor Frankenstein's friend Justine, the servant and friend of family who was sentenced to death for the crime. The creature finds Victor Frankenstein and he's basically saying to him, "This is all because I'm lonely; I have murdered a child–"
STEVEN CAMDEN: It couldn't be clearer, exactly, it couldn't be clearer, could it? "I am alone and miserable; look what you made me do."
HOLLIE McNISH: Yeah. And this sentence has a very strong and certain tone, in my opinion: "I am alone and miserable." There's no doubt. [STEVEN: No.] And it's being used as a justification for… murder, [STEVEN: Yeah.] really. "I am alone and miserable." It starts with the first person, "I am–"
STEVEN CAMDEN: Miserable and misery: we get a lot of it, right? In fact we don't just get it from the creature either; Victor uses it a lot when he's describing himself as well: "Who is-, who is the monster?" What both of them do leads them to misery.
HOLLIE McNISH: Some of the other characters are alone but they choose to be. [STEVEN: Yeah.] This creature is alone; doesn't choose to be. So this word "alone", "I am alone," is-, has different meanings for different characters in this book. So let's just think about it from the creature's point of view. [STEVEN: Yeah.] "I am alone and miserable."
STEVEN CAMDEN: That's important, right? I mean, think about as soon as he's given life the first thing that happens to him is that Victor Frankenstein, the-, the person who created him, is horrified by him and runs away in disgust and he's left on his own.He then has to hide from people because he knows that they're scared of him. And basically the more he's on his own the more bitter and the more vengeful and twisted he becomes.
MUSIC: [Gothic music plays]
HOLLIE McNISH: Isolation is such a key theme in Gothic novels. Gothic novels use ideas about the supernatural to explore what it means to be human, so they often have what we call "monsters" in them. [STEVEN: Yeah.]They're often quite scary. There's often violence, like many people who die in Frankenstein". This is a-, it's a violent novel, and that's-, that's often the case in Gothic novels, and isolation is a big theme in Gothic novels. If you talk about isolation, tell us that it's a big theme in Gothic novels!
MUSIC: [Gothic music plays]
HOLLIE McNISH: Next, let's take a look at Frankenstein, Victor Frankenstein, the scientist, and what his experience of isolation tells us, because he chooses to be on his own at first, doesn't he?
STEVEN CAMDEN: Yeah. I think that's a big distinction, to my mind, that the search for his knowledge, his kind of quest for this kind of betterment and scientific discovery, is what leads him to isolate himself. He doesn't write to his family, he doesn't tell anyone where he-, what he's doing, he keeps it all a secret. What would you have done if one of your mates had said to you, "Look, I'm just gonna make this creature out of these body parts, can you–"
HOLLIE McNISH: No, you'd maybe write back fast.
STEVEN CAMDEN: Yeah! [both laugh]
HOLLIE McNISH: "Stop!" [laughs]
STEVEN CAMDEN: But it's even a quote, like, from – it's early in the story when he's creating the creature, is, "I shunned my fellow creatures as if I had been guilty of a crime."
HOLLIE McNISH: Yeah.
STEVEN CAMDEN: Again, the idea of being shunned. But that he actively did it himself. Not "I was shunned" like the creature was; the creature was shunned by the people. Victor actually said, "I shunned my fellow creatures." It's not – like you said before, it's not a coincidence that these words are chosen.So even if it's just you remembering "I shunned my fellow creatures" said by scientist Victor.There's also the angle, I guess, you know, secrecy being isolating. Like, he knows that the creature has killed his brother, and Justine is taking the fall for this, and just the isolation of a secret, like, that's a big one to keep and hold in terms of what he makes you feel by you're completely by yourself and isolated.
HOLLIE McNISH: And the loneliness with Victor Frankenstein, this loneliness follows him all around the world, which, again, if you look at the place where this is set, the setting of this text, it really mimics this idea that by the end of the text he is in the Arctic.
STEVEN CAMDEN: Yeah, the loneliest place.
MUSIC: [Gothic music plays]
HOLLIE McNISH: So this takes us to the explorer, Robert Walton. So he's the explorer who Frankenstein tells his story to, and he is also the lonely character; he also talks about wanting to be near people. So, Steven, you've got a quote from the very start of the story to discuss Robert Walton very nicely.
STEVEN CAMDEN: Yeah, he's writing home to his sister. And the reason I like this one is, right, it's really clear. He literally says, "I bitterly feel the want of a friend."This is Robert Walton as this brave, ambitious explorer. And he literally said, "I bitterly feel the want of a friend," which means "I want a fri-, I wish I had a mate with me." Look at the choice of words, like "bit-, bitterly". Bitter. We're in-, we're in the North Pole, it's bitterly cold. It all-, it's all on purpose, right? Mary Shelley's choosing these words again very carefully. That's why it's another good quote.
HOLLIE McNISH: So, yeah, as you say, this quote, "I bitterly feel the want of a friend," this word "bitterly", Mary Shelley is specific with her choice of language. And I think she's a very, very good writer. Erm–
STEVEN CAMDEN: She's all right, isn't she!
HOLLIE McNISH: Yeah, she is all right!And this is an example of pathetic fallacy.
STEVEN CAMDEN: What's that?
HOLLIE McNISH: So that's describing something, so here the weather, with human emotions to reflect the way the character is feeling. So it just make-, it just combines everything. [STEVEN: Yeah.] So pathetic fallacy is this amazing linguistic technique to get-, to get into your exam, but it's an amazing linguistic technique to-, to write with. [STEVEN: Yeah.]So the story starts and ends at the North Pole, a really lonely place, isolated location. Walton, Robert Walton, the explorer, he has chosen to go to this location. Victor Frankenstein ends up in this location. The search for knowledge and glory for both Victor Frankenstein and Robert Walton isolate them from the rest of society.
STEVEN CAMDEN: It's interesting there the way they tie in, like this idea of ambition and the glory and the knowledge, the pursuit of knowledge that we talked about in the other podcast about knowledge, this is what it leads to: their quest leads them to be completely isolated.
HOLLIE McNISH: Yeah.
STEVEN CAMDEN: Which is why it fits so perfectly in the North Pole.
HOLLIE McNISH: Pathetic fallacy is such a great linguistic technique to talk about in your exam. A really good example of it here in "Frankenstein". And there is more about pathetic fallacy on the Bitesize website.
STEVEN CAMDEN: Brilliant.
MUSIC: [organ music plays]
HOLLIE McNISH: Let's think a bit about Mary Shelley. So, Mary Shelley wrote this book, and she knew a lot about loneliness herself. So let's just think a little bit about that.
STEVEN CAMDEN: Yeah, at this point in her life, at 18, she's already lost her mother.
HOLLIE McNISH: She died in childbirth giving birth to Mary Shelley.
STEVEN CAMDEN: Also there's reference to her feeling abandoned by her father after her mother's death, and he's busy, and she's already lost a child.
HOLLIE McNISH: Yeah.
STEVEN CAMDEN: She's lost a child at this point.
HOLLIE McNISH: There's-, there are also references to her feeling abandoned by Percy Shelley, [STEVEN: Yeah.] who was her-, her lover [STEVEN: Mm-hmm.] and father of her child. And yet she's-, she's-, at 18, she's a teenager. [STEVEN: Yeah.]It's so important to have the context, context for the author, the setting of the story, that at the time people couldn't believe that a woman had written this-, this text, especially a young woman, which kind of to me seems ridiculous, knowing what Mary Shelley had gone through.
STEVEN CAMDEN: Yeah.
MUSIC: [organ music plays]
HOLLIE McNISH: So let's go over the main points one last time. The story tells us that too much isolation is not necessarily good for us, whether you choose it or maybe especially if it's forced on you.
STEVEN CAMDEN: Yeah.
HOLLIE McNISH: And that isolation can turn into other negative emotions, like hatred and anger.
STEVEN CAMDEN: Yeah.
HOLLIE McNISH: So at first Victor Frankenstein chooses to be alone, but then because of his actions he has to isolate himself from society; his secrets make him lonely.
STEVEN CAMDEN: Quote: "I shunned my fellow creatures." He actively shunned, he pushed other people away. But the creature, on the other hand, has never known anything except loneliness. So while he sees other people have friends and family and loved ones, watching the DeLaceys and watching other people, he wants it so much he begs Victor Frankenstein to create a companion for him. "I am alone and I am miserable." Couldn't be clearer there. Right? He wants this.
HOLLIE McNISH: Yeah. And these two quotes are great to use together. One quote from Victor Frankenstein, "I shunned my fellow creatures." [STEVEN: Yeah.] The other quote, from the creature, "I am alone and miserable." If you wanted to compare these it's good to get something about the language in. They both start with the word "I".
STEVEN CAMDEN: Mm-hmm.
HOLLIE McNISH: "I shunned… I am…" They're both talking about themselves.
STEVEN CAMDEN: Owning it.
HOLLIE McNISH: Yeah, the actual sentences are lonely.
MUSIC: [music plays]
HOLLIE McNISH: Thanks so much for listening to this Bitesize English Literature podcast. Check out the other episodes in this series. We also talk about knowledge, justice, nature versus nurture, ambition, and the next episode in this series, prejudice.
MUSIC: [music plays]
HOLLIE McNISH: For more from the Bitesize team, search "Bitesize" on BBC Sounds.
MUSIC: [Gothic music plays, then organ music plays]
[END]
Listen on BBC Sounds
Isolation is a key theme in which type of novel?
Isolation is a key theme in Gothic novels. Frankenstein includes some Gothic elements, particularly in the isolation of both the creature and Victor Frankenstein, and the use of isolated settings such as the Arctic.
Episode 4 - Prejudice
Prejudice is a key theme in the novel. Characters are continually showing prejudice towards the creature from the moment they see him.
MUSIC: [BBC Sounds intro music plays]
PRESENTER: BBC Sounds. Music. Radio. Podcasts.
MUSIC: [organ music plays, then Gothic music]
HOLLIE McNISH: Hi and welcome to our Bitesize English Literature podcast. I'm Hollie McNish, and in this series I'm breaking down the key themes in "Frankenstein" to get you ready for your GCSE. Joining me to talk all things "Frankenstein" is Steven Camden, AKA Polarbear.
STEVEN CAMDEN: Hello. I'm ready.
HOLLIE McNISH: You're ready?
STEVEN CAMDEN: Are you ready?
HOLLIE McNISH: I'm ready! I'm so ready! So, before we get started, remember that there's more info on "Frankenstein" on the BBC Bitesize web pages, so check those out. I used Bitesize when I was studying for my GCSEs and it really helped me, so I'm so happy to be here doing this.In this podcast series we're talking through the key themes in "Frankenstein". We'll take you through character by character and give you some quotes to remember.In this Gothic novel, Victor Frankenstein wants to create life but ends up building what some have referred to as a monster. Victor Frankenstein takes one look at the creature he's created and is so horrified by what he sees that he runs away.The creature is then shunned by everyone he comes across because of the way he looks, so the creature takes his revenge. In this episode we're looking at a key theme: prejudice.
MUSIC: [Gothic music plays]
HOLLIE McNISH: So, Steven, let's talk about the word "prejudice". What does it mean exactly?
STEVEN CAMDEN: So shall we define "prejudice", coming from "pre-judge", like deciding you don't like something or someone without getting to know them; you just make up your mind about something before you actually know anything about it.
HOLLIE McNISH: Okay. So let's hear a section from the text. The creature has realised people are scared of him because of the way he looks. He's been secretly watching a family called the DeLaceys and learning from them. He finally plucks up the courage to knock on the door when one of the DeLaceys, who is blind, is home and alone. So this is the creature talking to the old man and explaining what his plan is.
CLIP
THE CREATURE: I am going to claim the protection of some friends whom I sincerely love and of whose favour I have some hopes.
OLD MAN: I wish you luck.
THE CREATURE: These amiable people to whom I go have never seen me and know little of me. I am full of fears for if I fail there am I an outcast in the world forever.
OLD MAN: Oh, to be friendless is indeed to be unfortunate, but the hearts of men, when unprejudiced by any obvious self-interest, are full of charity.
THE CREATURE: They are kind, but where they ought to see a feeling and kind friend they may behold only a detestable monster.
END OF CLIP
HOLLIE McNISH: So, the full quote to look at here from the text, this is the creature saying this to the old blind man in the DeLacey family, so he says, "A fatal prejudice clouds their eyes, and where they ought to see a feeling and kind friend they behold only a detestable monster." So the prejudice against the creature is visual, it's all because of his appearance. He waits until this old man, De Lacey, who is blind, he waits till he's alone so he can go and talk to him.
STEVEN CAMDEN: He's learnt that the way he looks is what is repellent to people, so he chooses his moment, right? [HOLLIE: Yeah.] And if may-, perhaps if it was just the old man he'd be fine, but then the family come back.
HOLLIE McNISH: So let's keep talking about the DeLaceys because their prejudice is-, is really interesting in this text. Remember to write down quotes and key words. We're gonna come back to this quote in a minute. I find it so sad that the DeLaceys reject the creature, because they're in hiding themselves, aren't they?
STEVEN CAMDEN: The DeLaceys have fled because of a political problem, and the creature's been watching them and notices that they don't have much themselves either. Early on he's kind of stealing food from them and empathises with them so much over time that he stops stealing their food because he realises they don't have much.
HOLLIE McNISH: And he helps them out.
STEVEN CAMDEN: Exactly. If ever there was a chance for this kind of connection, here it is. But even then he knows to choose his moment.
HOLLIE McNISH: He's helping them, he's bringing them firewood, he's-, he's being their friend, but he knows that just 'cause of the way he looks they-, they'd run a mile if they saw him. He-, and he says – I come back to the quote: "A fatal prejudice clouds their eyes, and where they ought to see a feeling and kind friend they behold only a detestable monster." This is such a moment for me, [STEVEN: Yeah.] where we really know that the creature fully understands [STEVEN: There's an awareness there, right?] prejudice.
STEVEN CAMDEN: Right, yeah, completely, there's an awareness of what it is. And it's also that "fatal" prejudice. There's even a hint of like – it's almost like foreshadowing for what comes later, [HOLLIE: Yeah.] right? 'Cause it ends up being true. Lots of people die.
HOLLIE McNISH: Yeah, lots of people die. In terms of the language I think this is a really great quote as well. I'm gonna say it again. "A fatal prejudice clouds their eyes and where they ought to see a feeling and kind friend [laughs] they behold only a detestable monster." I was only laughing there – it's not a funny quote, but it was because I found alliteration. [STEVEN: Alliteration, yeah, of course.]I like to find alliteration in everything. But, "A feeling and kind friend," the "feeling" and the "friend" both begin with an F. That's alliteration.It's-, again, it's the same, this "feeling" and "friend", this desperation for companionship. Also it's-, th-, it's really strong imagery. It's-, and this idea of "fatal prejudice clouds their eyes," it's as if it's-, it's not even-, it's not even their fault, it's just the prejudice is so strong that [STEVEN: Engrained in them.] it's just clouding their vision, like they cannot-, like they can't see who he is, [STEVEN: Yeah.] they can only see a monster.And one more thing about the language I think that's important here as well is that it's very opinionated, [STEVEN: Yeah.] this quote: "A fatal prejudice clouds their eyes, and where they OUGHT to see…" The creature is actually saying they OUGHT to see; "I know who I am." They "ought to see a feeling and kind friend" – he's been helping them with the firewood, you know, he's stopped taking the food. And this is for me the point where it starts turning, that he really understands how-, how all the world is against him, and he uses the word "monster" importantly. He describes how other people see him as a monster. He understands this.
MUSIC: [organ music plays]
HOLLIE McNISH: Let's think about the creature, 'cause obviously the creature is a main character through which we talk about prejudice in this text.
STEVEN CAMDEN: Yeah, it's the first thing he experiences, right, basically the-, the person who created him taking one look and running away.
HOLLIE McNISH: Imagine.
STEVEN CAMDEN: Well, I don't want to, but yes. And like… and there's just the sadness of it, how much prejudice people have.
HOLLIE McNISH: There are also just words, like words that are so important in terms of the theme of prejudice. And I think it's easier to remember them all at once. So the creature is called…
STEVEN CAMDEN: Monster. Wretch. Filthy. Demon at one point?
HOLLIE McNISH: Yeah. Awful.
STEVEN CAMDEN: Yeah. And they – more than once, right? There were-, there are references to these things more than once in terms of other people's but also his own perception of himself.
HOLLIE McNISH: That single word is still a quote.
STEVEN CAMDEN: Yeah.
HOLLIE McNISH: So "monster", "wretch", "filthy", "demon", put them all in quotation marks, list them. If you can remember two, put them in.
STEVEN CAMDEN: Talk about why Shelley's choosing them.
MUSIC: [organ music plays]
HOLLIE McNISH: So remember that this Gothic novel is-, is written by someone. It's written by a teenage girl, it's written by Mary Shelley. She chose to write this, she chose the words and she chose the language. The author always chooses words and phrases to put into the characters' mouths on purpose. So just-, just always remember that.
STEVEN CAMDEN: Is it worth mentioning about her parents?
HOLLIE McNISH: Yes. So, who were her parents?
STEVEN CAMDEN: So, her mother was Mary Wollstonecraft who was a c-, active campaigner for women's rights, and her dad William Godwin was a philosopher and also interested in personal freedoms.
HOLLIE McNISH: So her life was imbued – like, so much discussion of prejudice–
STEVEN CAMDEN: –Yeah, it would have been around. Completely. That's what it looks like, yeah.
MUSIC: [Gothic music plays]
HOLLIE McNISH: William Frankenstein is Victor Frankenstein's little brother. And before the creature murders William, William calls him an ogre. So this is another word in that list of words we've had – monster, wretch, filthy, demon, and then ogre.Let's talk about William quickly, because even though he's only in this text for one brief scene he's really important. And remember, Mary Shelley chose to include a child specifically being murdered, so why?
STEVEN CAMDEN: Well, it's almost like kind of saying that if-, if even a child is prejudiced then this-, this creature has no hope whatsoever. It's like how complete prejudice can be. It can affect – like, so this-, this-, this child has heard stories about ogres. What I find interesting about this is that even in-, in the quote he said-, he calls him-, he says, "You are an ogre," but in the line before he says, "You wish to eat me and tear me to pieces." Ingrained in this kid are these stories of ogres, and here he is confronted by one, and-, and tells-, almost tells the creature what it's going to do.
HOLLIE McNISH: Yeah.
STEVEN CAMDEN: It's terrifying, man, when you think about it!
HOLLIE McNISH: It is terrifying. And it's really important because I think for-, for me this character just makes me question the prejudices that – well, we still have them in fairy tales, there's a lot of discussion of that nowadays, and this idea, this ogre, and monster, is the same, these are words that children know.
STEVEN CAMDEN: Yeah, and are passed down through generations, right? And will carry on being passed down, who is good and who is bad based on what they look like.
HOLLIE McNISH: Yeah.
MUSIC: [organ music plays]
HOLLIE McNISH: The next character we're gonna talk about is Justine Moritz because she also experiences prejudice. She's an important character here. Get her in your exam. Even-, even with a sentence about Justine there are so many examples of prejudice in this text, but the character of Justine is the character through which Mary Shelley also demonstrates class prejudice.
STEVEN CAMDEN: Yeah. She's a servant, she's a friend of the family, but she's-, she works for them, essentially.
HOLLIE McNISH: Yes. So just quickly.
STEVEN CAMDEN: Mm-hmm?
HOLLIE McNISH: What prejudice does Justine face?
STEVEN CAMDEN: Well, it's the idea of people in power being more important, right, and who is expendable. I think gender comes into it as well. When she gets framed for the murder, which we're gonna talk about in the Justice one, even Victor himself doesn't speak up, but there is a kind of-, an-, an unsaid thing that it's-, it's all right because it's somebody who's not on the same social status.
HOLLIE McNISH: Yeah, it's a working-class woman.
STEVEN CAMDEN: Yeah.
HOLLIE McNISH: And she dies.
STEVEN CAMDEN: Yeah.
HOLLIE McNISH: It's a really small but very important and very strong storyline for the theme of prejudice and also for the theme of justice.
STEVEN CAMDEN: Yeah, we're gonna get into it more.
MUSIC: [organ music plays]
HOLLIE McNISH: So before we go we'll go over this once more. Prejudice is visual. People think the creature is evil simply because of the way he looks. He's called "monster", "wretch", "filthy", "demon"; he's called "ogre" by a child. The creature knows this, he learns about this prejudice, which is good for the theme of knowledge to talk about, and he tries to befriend a blind man because he thinks that only a blind man could possibly not judge him.
STEVEN CAMDEN: Yeah.
HOLLIE McNISH: And the quote here: "A fatal prejudice clouds their eyes, and where they ought to see a feeling and kind friend they behold only a detestable monster." That prejudice clouding their eyes.
STEVEN CAMDEN: Worth mentioning the words as well, "prejudice against poorer people." Just being the servant, framed for the-, for William's death, and everyone believes she did it without-, even before the trial 'cause it makes sense because she is of a lower class. [HOLLIE: Yeah.] That prejudice of the above and the below.
HOLLIE McNISH: So so many different ideas of prejudice to get in, and a lot of different characters that you can use clear examples from.
STEVEN CAMDEN: Yeah.
MUSIC: [music plays]
HOLLIE McNISH: Thanks for listening to this Bitesize English Literature podcast. You can find even more help and advice from the Bitesize team, just search "Bitesize" on BBC Sounds.In the next episode we're gonna be talking about a theme that links closely to prejudice: justice.
MUSIC: [Gothic and organ music plays]
[END]
Listen on BBC Sounds
What is the reason for the prejudice experienced by the creature?
The creature’s shocking appearance is the reason for the prejudice he experiences. He says “a fatal prejudice clouds their eyes” because no one can see beyond his appearance.
Episode 5 - Justice
Justice is touched on in a number of ways in Frankenstein. Some characters put their trust in the justice system, while Victor seeks justice himself.
MUSIC: [BBC Sounds intro music plays]
PRESENTER: BBC Sounds. Music. Radio. Podcasts.
MUSIC: [organ music plays, then Gothic music]
HOLLIE McNISH: Hi and welcome to our Bitesize English Literature podcast, where we talk through the important themes in the texts for your English Literature GCSE. In this series we're diving into "Frankenstein" by Mary Shelley.I'm Hollie McNish, I'm a writer and a poet, and I used Bitesize to help me when I was studying for my GCSEs, so it's great to be here. And it's even better to be joined by the marvellous Steven Camden, AKA Polarbear. Steven, have you got any good revision advice to kick us off?
STEVEN CAMDEN: What helped me a lot was at night time listening to things like this podcast. You can almost like double up on what you've learnt in the day and let it kind of like seep into you rather than it being actively scribbling-, scribbling notes. You can listen to them and take notes but then maybe even listen again, like re-listening when you're in a more kind of calm state and the stuff will just – I find that information goes in just before I'm going to sleep, actually.
HOLLIE McNISH: Oh, nice.
STEVEN CAMDEN: So I'll have a listen, like, just before. So you've got-, you've got your active revision version and you've got the more kind of like gentle, aah, just checking. And it can feel quite good 'cause you can feel like you already know certain things and then a refresh before you drift off and, I guess, dream about Frankenstein.
HOLLIE McNISH: [laughs] Oh! What a lovely thing to dream about!
STEVEN CAMDEN: Yeah, sorry! Yeah, forget that! Yeah, you don't have to dream about Frankenstein! But it helps!
MUSIC: [Gothic music plays]
HOLLIE McNISH: "Frankenstein" is the story of a creature who is given life by scientist Victor Frankenstein. Remember, the scientist is called Victor Frankenstein and the creature does not have a name. That's important.The creature is shunned by society and he takes revenge: first murdering a child, William, and framing a young woman, Justine, for the crime. Is any of this fair? Well, let's find out, because in this episode we're talking about justice. This theme is really closely related to the theme of prejudice, which we talked about in the last episode. So go back and listen to that again if you need a recap.Before we get into it, here is a section from the text. The child the creature kills is William, Frankenstein's little brother. On hearing the news, Victor Frankenstein rushes home. He knows the creature must have done it. But when he gets there he hears some upsetting news. Their servant, and to him close family friend Justine has been accused of the murder.Here's Victor Frankenstein talking to his father and adopted sister Elizabeth.
CLIP
ELIZABETH: Your arrival fills me with hope. You perhaps will-, will find some means to justify my poor guiltless Justine. Well, who is safe if she be convicted of crime?
VICTOR FRANKENSTEIN: She is innocent and that shall be proved.
ELIZABETH:
VICTOR'S FATHER: Dry your eyes, Elizabeth. If Justine is innocent, rely on the justice of our courts.
END OF CLIP
HOLLIE McNISH: So let's focus on the quote in that clip. Elizabeth, who is the adopted sister, also Victor Frankenstein's wife…
STEVEN CAMDEN: Future wife.
HOLLIE McNISH: …says, "Justify my poor guiltless Justine." So that's important. I would write that one down. It's also one of the few times in this text that a woman is talking about a woman. There's two female characters. Elizabeth is this sort of perfect, idealised, er, female character, and she says, "Justify my poor guiltless Justine." And this is quite a strongly worded quote from Elizabeth.Frankenstein's father, what does he say?
STEVEN CAMDEN: Well, he says they can rely on the justice of-, justice of the courts, right? Because he believes in the justice system because he's allowed to because they're rich. Their version of the law is a different version of the law of-, of the common folk.
HOLLIE McNISH: This rich family believes that society is fair and that the justice system, the justice of the courts, it can be relied on. So what do you think Mary Shelley is trying to say about this? Because it's really important in your exams to-, to write down what you think the author is trying to tell us about a theme. So Mary Shelley–
STEVEN CAMDEN: Yeah, yeah, It's a comment, right? It's like there are-, there are versions of justice. There's a version for the people and the wealthy and there's a version for the people who have little. And one is distinctly fairer than the other. We were talking in the other podcast about prejudice, about the house she grew up in and how aware she would have been of these kind of political and social factors. So it's definitely on purpose. So it's good to mention, like you say, Mary Shelley's doing this on purpose to tell you that there are versions of justice which also applies to Victor and the creature.
MUSIC: [Gothic music plays]
HOLLIE McNISH: Okay, we're gonna look at what some of the characters tell us about justice. I think Justine is one of the most interesting characters when it comes to this theme. Even her name is important.
STEVEN CAMDEN: Massively.
HOLLIE McNISH: Massively important. Because there's alliteration. [laughs] No, I'm only joking!
STEVEN CAMDEN: That's part of it! No, but yeah, it's-, it is not a big leap, is it? It's not a big leap to realise, you know, Justine, Justice.
HOLLIE McNISH: Yeah. And it's–
STEVEN CAMDEN: It's deliberate, it's deliberate.
HOLLIE McNISH: It's deliberate. So again this is such a good example of an author's intent. Mary Shelley has called this character Justine, and this character is one of the main characters when we look at justice. And obviously the word "Justine" and the word "justice"…
STEVEN CAMDEN: She wants you to think about justice when you say or hear the name.
HOLLIE McNISH: Yeah. And Justine is innocent. So remember, Justine is-, is innocent. The only thing that ties her to the crime of the murder of William Frankenstein is the locket found in her pocket.
STEVEN CAMDEN: Yeah.
HOLLIE McNISH: So this is the necklace the creature has stolen from William and planted on Justine. She can't explain it. But even if she could, it doesn't make much sense. She lives with the Frankenstein family and could have taken it at any time if she wanted it. So this is-, this is not really great evidence to pin a murder on someone, but, but, she confesses–
STEVEN CAMDEN: –She confesses. She confesses because she's terrified about going to hell. So even though she knows she didn't do it, such is the power of the-, the-, the-, the injustice of what's been set up that she is executed for something she did not do.
HOLLIE McNISH: And it's so complicated, isn't it, this idea inside her mind. I can't quite get my head around it, this idea of confessing because she's scared of going to hell. And some people say – it could be said – that's quite a good phrase, "it could be said that", for your exam! – it could be said that Mary Shelley is being critical of the Church here.
STEVEN CAMDEN: Yeah.
HOLLIE McNISH: She's writing at a time where there was this massive tension between science and religion. And Victor Frankenstein is a scientist playing God trying to create life. And she says she can die at peace.
STEVEN CAMDEN: Yeah.
HOLLIE McNISH: She's being executed for a crime she did not commit. She says she can die in peace because Victor Frankenstein and Elizabeth believe her to be innocent! [laughs] I'm not sure I'd be!
MUSIC: [Gothic music plays]
HOLLIE McNISH: What about Victor Frankenstein? So he obstructs justice, doesn't he, as you've said. He gets in the way of justice.
STEVEN CAMDEN: Yeah.
HOLLIE McNISH: He has evidence that Justine is innocent, he knows that he's created this creature who committed the murder, but he doesn't want to admit to what he's done. And he lets her die, and she feels at peace because he tells her he believed her because he knows she's innocent because he knows it was the creature! Erm, it's quite hard to be on… on Victor Frankenstein's side here, no?
STEVEN CAMDEN: –It is very hard to be on his side. And I think what makes it worse to me as well is the quote, "During the whole of this wretched mockery of justice, I suffered living torture."
HOLLIE McNISH: Ah! This one gets me too.
STEVEN CAMDEN: Completely. Just the idea of here is this woman who has been executed but it's "me" who's in the pain. No. No, Victor.
HOLLIE McNISH: [laughs] No! No, Victor!
STEVEN CAMDEN: Well, it's interesting because we're talking about justice, right, he calls it a mockery of justice, but he does nothing to help. What about his own sense of justice? What about personal justice? What about, like, you know, between people as opposed to just a system?There's a comment there, right? So he says one thing but-, but he-, he-, he has-, he has no sense of personal justice.
HOLLIE McNISH: No. And what does "mockery" mean? So he calls is "a mockery of justice". What-, what does he mean by "mockery"?
STEVEN CAMDEN: Well, it means it's a joke, right? It means it's not something you can-, you can trust or that-, that is believable or just or right.
HOLLIE McNISH: Okay, so it makes a joke of justice.
STEVEN CAMDEN: Yeah, exactly.
MUSIC: [Gothic music plays]
HOLLIE McNISH: So justice doesn't just take place in the courtroom in this Gothic novel "Frankenstein", does it? There's also personal justice. There's a lot to be said for the theme of justice when we look at the relationship between Victor Frankenstein the scientist and the creature.
STEVEN CAMDEN: He didn't ask to be born, this creature. So there's this idea of what is right and wrong, right? He's so painfully lonely he begs Frankenstein for a companion. That will be the just thing to do. Like, "You made me. Give me a companion."
HOLLIE McNISH: And that's-, we've got more about that in the podcast on isolation. So have a wee listen to that as well.
STEVEN CAMDEN: Exactly. Go back and check those out. And he agrees to make him a female companion. Do you believe that that is because of Victor's sense of justice or does he just want the creature to leave him alone? It's not a definite answer.
HOLLIE McNISH: No. That's important to say, isn't it? There's not-, there's not a definite answer. This isn't a novel that's telling you exactly what to think. And that's okay to-, to write that in your exams–
STEVEN CAMDEN: –Completely. And also to say that Victor has put himself in a position where there almost is no justice, that the ideas of right and wrong have kind of gone out of the window because he's played God.
MUSIC: [organ music plays]
HOLLIE McNISH: Now let's talk about the explorer Robert Walton, because he tells us about collective justice. So there's lots of different types of justice: there's the character of Justine; there's the relationship between Victor Frankenstein and the creature; and then there's the explorer Robert Walton talking about collective justice. So collective justice is when we all come together to decide what's fair as a group.
STEVEN CAMDEN: And that's in relation to his crew, right? And-, and this idea that he is-, he is the captain of his ship, and then on this mission, this ambitious mission, that a lot of the crew have doubts, and whether he will listen to them or not.
HOLLIE McNISH: So there's a great quote here about collective justice, about listening [laughs] to other people. [STEVEN: laughs] Erm, and it is Robert Walton, the explorer. So they're off exploring the Arctic. He's in charge. He's wanting to seek knowledge–
STEVEN CAMDEN: And it's treacherous, right? This is uncharted, frozen – we could die here.
HOLLIE McNISH: Yeah. It is very dangerous. And his crew, importantly, are like, "We wanna go home!"
STEVEN CAMDEN: Yeah! "Can we maybe not?!"
HOLLIE McNISH: Yeah!
MUSIC: [Gothic music plays]
HOLLIE McNISH: Eventually Robert Walton says, "In justice, I could not refuse." So he's writing that in a letter to his sister, talking about the fact that he could not not turn the boat around and go home – even though he wanted to carry on, but he listened to his crew.
STEVEN CAMDEN: Which is interesting. You know, think about it in relation to ambition: justice in this sense serves a purpose because it keeps that ambition in check and possibly saves the lives of the entire crew and himself.
HOLLIE McNISH: Do you think Mary Shelley is saying that justice is more important than glory?
STEVEN CAMDEN: Yes, I do. But I think it's important to think about examples of here is somebody who does seem to learn or use justice for the greater good. This is based on Victor Frankenstein telling his story to Walton. They're the mirror of each other but Walton possibly learns from Victor's mistakes.
HOLLIE McNISH: And it's good to compare characters. Like, you can compare them quite succinctly in your exam, can't you?
STEVEN CAMDEN: Yeah, that's a good quote. You know, it literally mentions the word, right, if-, if you're writing, about, "In justice, I could not refuse."
HOLLIE McNISH: Yeah.
STEVEN CAMDEN: So there's somebody thinking about the greater good, considering the world, foregoing their own-, own ambition and their glory.
MUSIC: [Gothic music plays]
HOLLIE McNISH: So before we go let's recap this theme of justice. So Justine is found guilty by the court. Mary Shelley called her Justine on purpose so we think about justice when we think about her. These names are chosen for a reason. The character Justine questions in a great way the justice of the legal system at the time when this text was set.Then we've got Victor Frankenstein.
STEVEN CAMDEN: Mm-hmm.
HOLLIE McNISH: So he feels the system has let Justine down. He calls it a "mockery of justice." He laughs at justice as if – he makes justice into a joke, but what about his sense of personal justice? Victor Frankenstein doesn't tell anyone what he knows to save Justine, he lets her die, and what does he owe the creature? Is it-, is it justice to destroy the companion that he made for the creature? So there's a lot of questions around justice in terms of Victor Frankenstein.
STEVEN CAMDEN: Yeah. And then–
HOLLIE McNISH: Then finally?
STEVEN CAMDEN: Collective justice, like what's fair for the group, for a society. And the example here we have is the explorer Robert Walton bending to collective justice, listening to it, and choosing to allow it to turn a ship around and bring his-, his-, his crew home and saying, "In justice, I could not refuse."
MUSIC: [Gothic music plays]
HOLLIE McNISH: Thanks so much for listening to this Bitesize English Literature podcast. Remember you can check out the Bitesize website for more on the theme of justice. To listen to the other episodes in this series just search "Bitesize" on the BBC Sounds app. In the next episode we're talking about ambition.
MUSIC: [Gothic music plays, then organ music]
[END]
Listen on BBC Sounds
Which character is wrongly executed for the murder of William Frankenstein?
Justine, the servant and friend of the Frankenstein family, is executed after being framed and accused of murdering William Frankenstein. Her name, Justine, is closely linked to the word ‘justice’ and so reminds the reader of the injustice of her execution.
Episode 6 - Ambition
Ambition is a driving force within the novel. Victor's ambition to create life leads to a creature whose ambition is to simply be accepted by society.
MUSIC: [BBC Sounds intro music plays]
PRESENTER: BBC Sounds. Music. Radio. Podcasts.
MUSIC: [organ music plays, then Gothic music]
HOLLIE McNISH: Hi and welcome to our Bitesize English Literature podcast. My name is Hollie McNish, I'm a writer and a poet, and in this series I'm gonna help guide you through the key themes in the novel "Frankenstein" so you're prepared for your GCSE English Literature exam.There is a lot of information in these podcasts, so if, like me, you're not that good at multitasking, remember you can pause this at any time to make notes or rewind and go back if you miss a bit.Speaking of multitasking, I'm helped by Steven Camden. He's so busy he's even got two names.
STEVEN CAMDEN: [chuckles]
HOLLIE McNISH: He performs [chuckles] as Polarbear as well as writing novels and poetry.
STEVEN CAMDEN: I-, I'm-, I'm so ambitious. So ambitious.
HOLLIE McNISH: [laughs] He is so ambitious!
STEVEN CAMDEN: [laughs]
HOLLIE McNISH: So the theme for this episode is ambition. We're gonna break it down character by character and make sure you've got some great quotes for your exams.
MUSIC: [timpani drum beats]
HOLLIE McNISH: "Frankenstein" is the story of a really ambitious man, Victor Frankenstein. He's a scientist. He's so ambitious that he wants to create life, but it backfires horribly when he creates what he then thinks of as a monster.The creature desperately wants to be accepted but ends up turning to murder. And Victor hunts the creature down and they both finally end up in the Arctic.
STEVEN CAMDEN: And one of the things that's most interesting to me about this is like, you know, ambition – it almost sounds like Mary Shelley's saying ambition is a bad thing, which kind of contradicts – you know, we're taught to be ambitious, aim for the-, shoot for the stars, all this kind of thing. And I think it's-, what's so gorgeous about this story is just nothing is as simple as that. It's way-, it's always way more complicated. It's not just ambition but the idea of too much ambition, and what you have to be careful of, and also how your ambition affects other people.
HOLLIE McNISH: Yeah. And think about the writer as well. Obviously this pers-, this novel is written by someone. It was written by Mary Shelly. She wrote this in 1818, when she was 18. That's pretty ambitious [laughs] for a teenager!
STEVEN CAMDEN: Agreed.
HOLLIE McNISH: Erm, and she wrote it because it was part of a competition. She was at a party. Not having other things to do they set up a competition of who could write the best story. She wrote this as-, as part of a competition at a party. [laughs]
STEVEN CAMDEN: Yeah. And then it turned out to be one of the most important books ever written, potentially. Like–
HOLLIE McNISH: Amazing! Yeah! Here's a section from the text. This is Victor Frankenstein the scientist telling the explorer Robert Walton all about his, quote, "lofty ambition."
CLIP
VICTOR FRANKENSTEIN: I trod heaven in my thoughts, now exulting in my powers, now burning with the idea of their effects. From my infancy I was imbued with high hopes and a lofty ambition; but how am I sunk! Oh! My friend, if you had known me as I once was you would not recognise me in this state of degradation. Despondency rarely visited my heart; a high destiny seemed to bear me on, until I fell, never, never again to rise.
END OF CLIP
HOLLIE McNISH: Remember, it's a good idea to have a pen and paper with you while you listen to this so you can write down all the most important words and key themes and the quotes.
MUSIC: [organ music plays]
HOLLIE McNISH: Okay, so the first character we're gonna focus on is Victor Frankenstein. And we've talked about this in another podcast on the theme of knowledge, it's what drives Victor Frankenstein's ambition: glory.
STEVEN CAMDEN: Yeah, a sense of glory. All right, a key quote: "From my infancy I was imbued with high hopes and a lofty ambition." Him being told, erm, like kind of groomed, he was gonna be brilliant, he was gonna do inc-, inc-, tremen-, tremendous things. And that-, that idea of entitlement and that kind of – the wealthy class.
HOLLIE McNISH: Yeah.
STEVEN CAMDEN: [stutters] Just a phrase, "lofty ambition," like your ambitions are higher than the-, you know, the rest of us in the room, they're above us in the top-, uppermost part of where-, where they can reach to. I've got such flashbacks of teachers telling me that I didn't-, I had unrecognised potential or a-, aim-, aim higher and have-, have loftier ambitions.
HOLLIE McNISH: Oh! Right!
STEVEN CAMDEN: And I'm like, right, no! Because if you do that you end up making a m-, a creature and it all goes wrong.
HOLLIE McNISH: [laughs]
STEVEN CAMDEN: So I was r-, I was right. But I think there's something about that-, the-, the-, the-, the drive behind that ambition that makes him not pay attention to other people or the consequences. It's just, right, I'm going for this. The ego of it. The kind of-, the-, the arrogance of it, almost.
HOLLIE McNISH: And that is a message from Mary Shelley.
STEVEN CAMDEN: Completely, I think.
HOLLIE McNISH: It's quite a-, it's quite a specific message, isn't it?
STEVEN CAMDEN: Yeah.
HOLLIE McNISH: Mary Shelley has written this book and she's specifically written about a man with lofty ambitions, or, "From my infancy I was IMBUED with high–" It's like it was like part-, it was pushed into him from infancy, from-, from-, from his childhood, from birth, "From my infancy I was imbued with high hopes" – alliteration, "high hopes" – and the word "lofty", meaning h-, higher.
STEVEN CAMDEN: Yeah. And interesting that from the very same character, Victor, at the end, we get this quote where he-, where he-, his advice to Walton on the ship, he literally says, "Seek happiness in tranquillity and AVOID ambition."
HOLLIE McNISH: Yeah, very different!
STEVEN CAMDEN: So there is this sense of – yeah, it's a little bit of a-, a journey Victor's been on! Right?
HOLLIE McNISH: Yeah. And these are great quotes to compare. So, "From my infancy I was imbued with high hopes and a lofty ambition." And then, "Seek happiness in tranquilly and avoid ambition." Same character. Really good to remember long quotes in your exams. For this, if I was comparing them, the "lofty ambition" and "avoid ambition", I would s-, snatch those two bits from those quotes, "lofty ambition" at first, "avoid ambition–"
STEVEN CAMDEN: But also, like, him saying, like, saying, "Look, seek happiness in tranquillity," tranquillity being peace and stillness, not this drive, lead the way and go-, kind of go on this quest. Relax, Walton, like, just seek happiness in tranquillity and avoid ambition because it does not end well.
HOLLIE McNISH: Thing is, he says it.
STEVEN CAMDEN: I know. I know. You were gonna-, you were gonna say that!
HOLLIE McNISH: He says it. I mean, it's all very good - "Seek happiness in tranquillity and avoid ambition," but even at the end of this text, in the Arctic, as Walton's crew on the ship are almost begging to go home, they want warm fires, they want-, they want-, they want – everyone wants a hug in this book.
STEVEN CAMDEN: Vic-, Victor can't shake off his old self, can he?
HOLLIE McNISH: He can't. He's-, he's-, he's still telling Robert Walton-, he's still having a go at Robert Walton's men for not wanting to carry on exploring!
STEVEN CAMDEN: Yeah.
HOLLIE McNISH: Does he learn his lesson?
STEVEN CAMDEN: Well, I think–
HOLLIE McNISH: I'm not sure.
STEVEN CAMDEN: Erm, erm, yeah. And I think it's something-, something to-, something that Mary Shelley's potentially saying right here is like, right, it's a very strong force and it's not something you can just kind of drop. "From my infancy I was imbued with high hopes and lofty ambition." If you've been ingrained with it, right, as-, as, you know, the-, the child of a wealthy family, you can't just drop it. And even after all this stuff, that ambition won't fizzle out completely. Really dangerous.
HOLLIE McNISH: Yeah.
STEVEN CAMDEN: This stuff can be toxic.
HOLLIE McNISH: And think again of the setting.
STEVEN CAMDEN: Yeah.
HOLLIE McNISH: The danger of this ambition. You are in the Arctic on a ship! This is-, man, imagine being one of those shipmen! You just want to go home. And there are these TWO, you know, loftily ambitious men [laughs] with lofty ambitions deciding your fate, really.
STEVEN CAMDEN: Yeah.
MUSIC: [Gothic music plays]
HOLLIE McNISH: Right, let's talk about the female characters in this book.
STEVEN CAMDEN: Please.
HOLLIE McNISH: There are not a lot of them.
STEVEN CAMDEN: No.
HOLLIE McNISH: [laughs] Just a couple! But, they do have something to say about ambition. And I feel like there is something missing with the female characters, and I think that is interesting.
STEVEN CAMDEN: Mm-hmm.
HOLLIE McNISH: So, Elizabeth Lavenza is adopted by the Frankenstein family. She's always described as beautiful. Her physical appearance is the most important thing about her. Beauty is always mentioned. And her role in this story is really to support the men. She takes the place of mother when Frankenstein's mother dies, and it's long been the plan that she will marry Victor Frankenstein. Erm–
STEVEN CAMDEN: That's interesting, right, though, that sense of the difference between female ambition and male ambition and what is allowed, and this idea from as a kid – if he says, "From my infancy I was imbued with high hopes and lofty ambition," from when she was a child and came to live with them she was imbued with the notion that she's now gonna m-, for her success, her ambition should extend no further than marrying.
HOLLIE McNISH: She's a-, an idealised female character. She's good and kind and beautiful. And she seems to have no desires of her own except to support the men in their ambitions. But we don't know, we don't know about the female characters' ambitions. And 'cause there's Justine as well, Justine Moritz, who we speak a lot about in the episodes on justice and also prejudice–
STEVEN CAMDEN: –Prejudice, yeah.
HOLLIE McNISH: So, does she have ambition? We don't know.
STEVEN CAMDEN: Yeah. It makes a statement in itself indirectly. It's sort of like the fact that these women we don't know as much about them and they aren't the main driving forces says something in itself.
HOLLIE McNISH: Yeah. It does–
STEVEN CAMDEN: –You know, it's not-, it's not-, it's not-, it's not a story about a woman who made a creature, it's a story about a man who made a creature. And I think that timing and the setting and what a, you know, patriarchal society where men are in charge means and would have meant at that time.
HOLLIE McNISH: And interesting that it's written by a woman.
STEVEN CAMDEN: Yeah.
MUSIC: [organ music plays]
HOLLIE McNISH: Let's talk about the creature and ambition.
STEVEN CAMDEN: Right.
HOLLIE McNISH: So there's Robert Walton, there's Victor Frankenstein, there are the two female characters, there's Elizabeth and Justine. What about the creature? Do we think the creature is ambitious?
STEVEN CAMDEN: Well, there is, erm-, there is definitely a-, erm, a-, a drive to learn, right? There is it wanting to be more human and teaching-, teaching himself to read. I mean, it's pretty-, I mean, like, yeah!
HOLLIE McNISH: I think so, yeah!
STEVEN CAMDEN: You know what I mean? Exactly. And I think, is there… But I guess what's interesting, is there-, is there-, is there-, is there a difference between ambition and just kind of wanting something? There's a – a basic need for connection, to my mind, feels different to ambition which is about-, is this idea of lofty ambitions and being above people and kind of going up, where this creature just wants some basic things.
HOLLIE McNISH: Okay.
STEVEN CAMDEN: And ambitions can change, right? Like the creature's ambition to-, to learn and to become more human, to be accepted, over time, when it-, when-, when the creature realises that it's not gonna get that and those ambitions are not gonna be fulfilled, his ambitions kind of warp and change and twist into revenge or, you know, its own kind of justice. That could still be seen as ambition.
HOLLIE McNISH: Yeah, it could.
MUSIC: [Gothic music plays]
HOLLIE McNISH: I've got one more quote I want to talk about. So this is Victor Frankenstein talking again, who is a really interesting character, erm, in terms of the theme of ambition. So the quote is: "That passion which afterwards ruled my destiny."
STEVEN CAMDEN: Yeah.
HOLLIE McNISH: So, that passion, the passion that he has, "which afterwards ruled my destiny," he's kind of blaming ambition.
STEVEN CAMDEN: [laughs]
HOLLIE McNISH: I think he's kind of separating himself a little bit. [laughs]
STEVEN CAMDEN: Do you-, do you think? It's a lesson, right? It-, that passion "which afterwards ruled my destiny," it feels to me like what Mary Shelley's saying is it can consume, it can consume you, it will take over and it will lead you somewhere; if it-, if your ambition is unchecked or inconsiderate of other people it's gonna lead you somewhere tragic.
HOLLIE McNISH: Yeah.
STEVEN CAMDEN: And I think that you can't really argue that that-, you know, it's-, it's a tragic story! Right?
HOLLIE McNISH: It is a tragic story. And it's a warning.
STEVEN CAMDEN: Yeah, I think so too.
HOLLIE McNISH: About ambition.
STEVEN CAMDEN: I really agree.
HOLLIE McNISH: About lofty ambition.
STEVEN CAMDEN: I really agree.
MUSIC: [organ music plays]
HOLLIE McNISH: Okay, so before we finish let's go through the main points one more time. Mary Shelley isn't saying that ambition is bad, but warns us too much ambition can be dangerous. So Victor says since he was a child he was "imbued with lofty ambition", but by the end of the book he's saying avoid ambition.
STEVEN CAMDEN: And the creature is ambitious too. He wants to be accepted; to do so it teaches himself to read, making steps to try and fit in and get connection. That ambition fails, and that ambition warps and twists and turns into revenge, which drives him to murder.
HOLLIE McNISH: So, yeah, I guess a warning.
STEVEN CAMDEN: Yeah.
HOLLIE McNISH: Too much ambition can be a bad thing, but also you can't always blame your ambition for actions that you've carried out.
STEVEN CAMDEN: Completely.
MUSIC: [Gothic music plays]
HOLLIE McNISH: Thanks for listening to this Bitesize English Literature podcast. For more help and advice search "Bitesize" on the BBC Sounds app. You can also find the other themes we cover: knowledge, isolation, prejudice, justice, and in the next episode, nature verses nurture.
MUSIC: [Gothic music plays, then organ music]
[END]
Listen on BBC Sounds
When did Victor Frankenstein first become ambitious?
Victor says that he was “imbued with high hopes and a lofty ambition” from his childhood.
Episode 7 - Nature vs Nurture
The question of nature versus nurture plays an important part in the study of the creature.
MUSIC: [BBC Sounds intro music plays]
PRESENTER: BBC Sounds. Music. Radio. Podcasts.
MUSIC: [organ music plays, then Gothic music]
HOLLIE McNISH: Hi and welcome to our Bitesize English Literature podcast. My name is Hollie McNish, I'm a writer and a poet, and this is the last episode in our series on the Gothic novel "Frankenstein" by Mary Shelley.We've already talked about some of the key themes: knowledge, isolation, ambition. And today, the last theme is one I think is really interesting to think about: nature versus nurture.Joining me is Steven Camden, AKA Polarbear. So, Steven, nature versus nurture.
STEVEN CAMDEN: Yeah.
HOLLIE McNISH: What does this mean?
STEVEN CAMDEN: Okay, basically, this is the relationship between what we are born with and is ingrained in us innately versus what we learn as a result of our environment and our experiences. Are we destined to be who we are already or does what happens to us make us who we are.
HOLLIE McNISH: So have a pen ready to make notes because we're gonna give you some brilliant quotes to write down. We're gonna break the theme down character by character, and in this episode we're really gonna focus on the creature. Let's hear a section from the text.The creature has found Victor Frankenstein and wants Victor Frankenstein to listen to him. He's trying to tell his creator that he is not a monster, that he was born good but the way the world has treated him is what has caused him to do bad things.
CLIP
THE CREATURE: I ought to be thy Adam, but I am rather the fallen angel whom thou drivest from joy for no misdeed.I was benevolent and good; but misery made me a fiend. Make me happy and I shall again be virtuous.
END OF CLIP
HOLLIE McNISH: [grimaces through her teeth]
STEVEN CAMDEN: It's so sad.
HOLLIE McNISH: It's so sad. But, but, but. There's always a 'but' with Mary Shelley's "Frankenstein".
STEVEN CAMDEN: Mm-hmm.
HOLLIE McNISH: The quote that really stands out is: "I was benevolent and good; misery made me a fiend." And this is such an important quote, so we're gonna keep coming back to it. What–
STEVEN CAMDEN: It's my favourite quote.
HOLLIE McNISH: Oh, is it? Nice.
STEVEN CAMDEN: It is.
HOLLIE McNISH: So, what's he saying here?
STEVEN CAMDEN: Well, he's saying… he's saying that he… he wasn't born this way, like he wasn't born a m-, a m-, a, quote, unquote, "monster". "I was benevolent and good," I was giving, I was kind; and all the bad things, all the sadness that I've experienced, the loneliness, the isolation, the prejudice, has "made me a fiend," turned me into this evil thing that is capable of these horrible acts.It-, it's like a punch in the heart, isn't it really, I th-, I think. It's my favourite quote of the whole story, to be honest.
HOLLIE McNISH: So I think I'm less sympathetic with him. I still am sympathetic [STEVEN: It's crazy isn't it, I know.] but I just have to keep reminding myself of the murders.
STEVEN CAMDEN: Yeah, yeah, for sure.
HOLLIE McNISH: "I was" – it starts with the first person – "I" – he's talking about himself – "was" – and "made" – it's in the past, like "I was benevolent and good" – he's not even saying… there is… "it's still in me" – "I was" – he uses the past tense in this quote.
STEVEN CAMDEN: But, Hollie, come on. I'm fighting the creature's corner. Just think about what's happened to this creature, all right. The very first thing that you open you eyes and the-, the person who made you is horrified and disgusted and runs away. Literally, love runs out the door.
HOLLIE McNISH: Yeah.
STEVEN CAMDEN: Right? And you're-, you're trying to learn, you want to try and make connection, and at every turn you are not only – you are shunned – these are words, right, they're using, right – you're c-, you're an "ogre", you're a "wretch", you're a "demon".
HOLLIE McNISH: And "misery made me." So this is – I'm so sorry to say it, but it's really good alliteration, like M, M, M, "Misery Made Me." And it really personifies misery, as if-, as-, as if he is not to blame. So it's quite passive, like "misery made me…become a bad person."
STEVEN CAMDEN: But it's like a before and after. So remember the quote. You can split it in two, right? "I was benevolent and good" – left hand – "misery made me a fiend" – right hand.
HOLLIE McNISH: Yeah.
STEVEN CAMDEN: It's before and after.
HOLLIE McNISH: Yeah.
STEVEN CAMDEN: It really is. Like there is-, there's the scales. So I-, that's how I would remember it. It's like I'm holding what-, you know, what I was, the goodness; and the badness is in my other hand. And if you tip – you've tipped me this way on the scales. It-, I-, man, it just makes me wanna cry! It makes me wanna cry.
HOLLIE McNISH: Yeah, it does. And it's such an important quote. And it's important to remember, you know, this-, this text was written, it was written by a person. [chuckles] It was written by a person thinking about other human beings. It's not just specific to this novel "Frankenstein". This quote, "I was benevolent and good; misery made me a fiend" is a HUGE quote.
STEVEN CAMDEN: Yeah.
HOLLIE McNISH: And it's so interesting.
MUSIC: [Gothic music plays]
HOLLIE McNISH: Let's keep thinking about the creature, because he's-, he's really the main character when it comes to this theme – isn't it? – nature versus nurture. Think about what happens to the creature. As you said, the very first thing that happens to him is that he is abandoned by the person that created him. Then everyone he sees runs away from him in horror.He tries to be good, we see him try to be good, but – give a few examples of how he tries to be good? He tries to learn language. He wants love. He takes wood to the DeLaceys, he takes firewood to them, he-, he wants them, he watches them, and constantly – which we've talked about in the podcast on knowledge – he-, he keeps learning, and every time he learns he learns about prejudice, he learns about people being horrendous to him. Erm, and it's only when he's rejected for the third time that he turns into what he's called a fiend.
MUSIC: [Gothic music plays]
HOLLIE McNISH: Well, the next character, William, I think is very important because Mary Shelley has put a child, a child who is murdered by the creature, which makes it so much harder to take all responsibility away from the creature, I think, in terms of nature versus nurture.
STEVEN CAMDEN: No, completely. But then how do you – what better way to make your point that nurture and the environment causes us to act how we do than to take it to the extreme of…
HOLLIE McNISH: A child.
STEVEN CAMDEN: Of murdering a child. It's a really clear communication of her message that, right, this is how bad it can be if the environment and the circumstances are not-, not happy or supportive.
HOLLIE McNISH: Absolutely. This is another reason it's important that this character is a child, why we have a child in it, because he sees the creature and calls him an ogre. This is a word that a child has learnt. He's learnt to be disgusted by the sight of a certain looking person. That has been taught to him by – implied here – fairy tales, stories. The word "ogre" is so important for this. And we talked about that before when we were talking about prejudice, but I think it's a really good one to bring in here too.The child is so young. Children are supposed to be innocent–
STEVEN CAMDEN: –Nurtured prejudice.
HOLLIE McNISH: It's nurtured prejudice, completely. He's already made up his mind. He's been told to hate things that look the way he has been told is-, is ugly, a word I absolutely hate. But also, is William right to call him an ogre?I mean, remember that this creature is huge, much bigger than humans; he's made up of sewn-up dead body parts. William is a child, the creature is huge. He could be a threat? So is it-, is it nature? Is it natural that you see somebody who's made up of-, of dead body parts and is much bigger than you and assume that you may be in danger? Or is it nurtured because of the fairy stories–
STEVEN CAMDEN: –Well, that's why it's interesting, right? Like all the themes in the story, it's not-, it's not a yes or a no or right or wrong in this. "I was benevolent and good, and I-, I've been driven to this." But then the fact that he's even aware of himself means he does have free will and is choosing. So it's not as simple, it's not just as simple as you put-, [HOLLIE: No.] yeah, you could put someone else in these circumstances and they wouldn't be driven to murder. That's why it's so gorgeous, right? Because it sparks discussion and it sparks thought in yourself.
HOLLIE McNISH: And it's a brilliant quote to learn. So when I was doing my GCSEs I would learn quotes to help me, to help–
STEVEN CAMDEN: –Yeah, it's helping you make a point, right?
HOLLIE McNISH: Yeah. "I am-, I was benev-, I was benevolent and good; misery made me a fiend." If you remember that quote, everything just bursts from it for this-, for this theme.
STEVEN CAMDEN: Yeah.
MUSIC: [Gothic music plays]
HOLLIE McNISH: So finally, one more character. Let's think about Victor Frankenstein. So Victor Frankenstein's a scientist. He's playing with nature, isn't he?
STEVEN CAMDEN: Mm-hmm.
HOLLIE McNISH: Remember, when he's trying to create the creature he steals body parts from charnel houses, so places where human remains and the bodies of the dead are kept at night. He's always alone. And-, and he says, "My eyes were insensible to the charms of nature."
STEVEN CAMDEN: He's not see-, he's not paying attention to what's natural and what is right when he's stealing body parts to cut up for his own ambitious project.
HOLLIE McNISH: Yeah. I do sometimes forget, strangely, and because the language is SO great, you know, the language that he learns to speak in, I have forgotten that he is made from stitched-up dead body parts.
STEVEN CAMDEN: Mm-hmm.
HOLLIE McNISH: I'm not sure if I wouldn't be slightly frightened, [chuckles] if I'm trying to think how I would act!
MUSIC: [Gothic music plays]
HOLLIE McNISH: Let's sum up what Mary Shelley is potentially telling us through this novel about nature verses nurture. So there's an obvious big question.
STEVEN CAMDEN: Yeah.
HOLLIE McNISH: Is anyone born bad?
STEVEN CAMDEN: Yeah.
HOLLIE McNISH: Still undecided.
STEVEN CAMDEN: But she's clearly saying that the creature wasn't born bad and that what happens to it, the more the creature tries to be good, the worse it's treated in return, which t-, which steers him towards badness and bad deeds.
HOLLIE McNISH: And the focus on the quote, "I was benevolent and good; misery made me a fiend."
STEVEN CAMDEN: Remember those two sides, right? The two sides of the scales. "I was benevolent and good; misery made me a fiend."
HOLLIE McNISH: And this idea that nurture happens so early. So from the moment he was – not born – created, he was abandoned, simply for the way he looked.
STEVEN CAMDEN: Yeah. And even William, the little, little boy, has already been nurtured to be prejudiced.
HOLLIE McNISH: Yeah. And specifically that word "ogre" is an important word.
MUSIC: [Gothic music plays]
HOLLIE McNISH: Polarbear, thank you so much. I think we've really got into "Frankenstein". We've talked about knowledge, isolation, prejudice, justice, ambition, and nature versus nurture. Do you have any final thoughts?
STEVEN CAMDEN: Remember your quotes. And remember that these issues and these themes they aren't black and white, they aren't as simple as right or wrong, but you're using the quotes to show what Mary Shelley is trying to do.
HOLLIE McNISH: Thank you. And well done for taking the time out to listen to this podcast. Listen again, listen as many times as you want so you're super ready for your exam.You can also find the other podcasts in this series. There's one on "Romeo and Juliet", "Jane Eyre", "Anita and Me", "An Inspector Calls", "Blood Brothers", and "Macbeth". Just search "Bitesize" on BBC Sounds.
MUSIC: [Gothic music plays, then organ music]
[END]
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What does the creature say made him into a monster?
The creature says “I was benevolent and good. Misery made me a fiend”. He means that the way he has been abandoned and shunned by society has turned him into a monster.
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