superlatives

Joshua and Vernon on Seventeen’s Super Silly, Sincere Career

Photo-Illustration: Vulture. Photo: Pledis Entertainment

If Joshua hears a Seventeen track playing in a restaurant, he might sneak a glance to see if staff noticed him walk in. “Most of the time it’s not because of that, it’s because they’re genuinely fans of our songs, so it’s pretty cool,†the singer says with a slight nod. That’s a fairly humble reaction, considering that eight years into the lively 13-piece boy band’s career, they’re playing (and eating) in restaurants around the world. Seventeen — made up of members S.Coups, Jeonghan, Joshua, Jun, Hoshi, Wonwoo, Woozi, The 8, Mingyu, DK, Seungkwan, Vernon, and Dino — don’t just sell out international shows, they set records. Their tenth mini album, FML, is currently the best-selling K-pop album of all time, with more than 6.2 million copies sold as of July. (It also holds the record for the highest first-day sales in K-pop, with 3.99 million copies). “We hit numbers we never thought we’d achieve before,†adds rapper Vernon. “We were just really surprised. Nobody expected FML to do that well. Those kind of achievements always just give us a sense of responsibility to give Carats a better experience.†Emphasizing his point with a thumbs-up, he adds, “We’re super grateful.â€

On October 23, Seventeen dropped their 11th mini album, Seventeenth Heaven, which includes the festive lead single “God of Music,†the Marshmello-produced earworm “SOS,†two fan songs, and one track apiece from the group’s vocal, performance, and hip-hop subunits. As ever, multiple members contributed to the production and songwriting — while Seventeen does work with outside collaborators, there’s a reason Carats have been bragging about their “self-producing idols†since the group’s 2015 debut. Joshua’s favorite compliment about Seventeen, though, is how strong their teamwork is. You can hear the bond between members in the perfectly synchronized shoe squeaks in dance practices, the brotherly banter in their variety show Going Seventeen, and the dynamic Vernon and Joshua show in this interview: The two often turn to make eye contact before finishing each other’s thoughts.

A week before their latest comeback, the pair seem happy to find a quiet room where they can lean back and reflect on their shared career, even though that means sorting through a pretty vast bank of memories — at one point, Joshua says with a laugh, “We have so many albums, I’m getting confused.â€

Title track that grew on you the most

Vernon: I liked “Left and Right†the first time I heard it, and it still grew on me. That’s one of my favorite Seventeen title tracks.

Joshua: When I first heard “Pretty U†… I didn’t necessarily dislike it, but I didn’t like it as much as our other title tracks. But later on, when we performed it, and after seeing the response from the fans and the audience, it eventually grew on me.

Vernon: That song had a totally different instrumental. It was recreated. The original title was “Joan of Arc.†We wrote that song before our debut, when we were trainees.

Joshua: The melody and the lyrics were all different. The performance, too. The choreo was prepared for “Joan of Arc,†but later on it became like a musical kind of thing.

Vernon: If I remember correctly, the first verse was almost the same, only the lyrics were a bit different. The original chorus was used as an outro for “Pretty U.†So that was an interesting experience … At first, it was very confusing. But like Joshua said, it definitely grew on us.

Joshua: So I liked “Joan of Arc†better than “Pretty U†at first because I was accustomed to it.

Vernon: We were just too used to the original song.

Song with the most heartfelt lyrics

Vernon: Mm … I think our Japanese songs have a lot of heartfelt lyrics. Which one, though?

Joshua: “Ai no Chikara� The power of love.

Vernon: I’ll choose “Hitorijanai.†Hitorijanai means you’re not alone. I really like the lyrics.

Joshua: Yeah, and the period of time when that was released and when we were making it, it was the season of the coronavirus, and we were like really apart.

Vernon: Right, right. So everybody was on the—

Joshua: On the web. We just wanted to remind our fans, you’re not alone, you’re with us.

Vernon: The song is heartfelt. Not only the lyrics, but also sonically. It feels like a winter song to me, like the holiday season. I don’t know if it’s only me, but when the temperature is cold, I have this warmth in myself. [Laughs.] I guess it’s thanks to my childhood. Because every time winter came, I always had such a good time with my family. So that song gives me a similar feeling.

Most underrated B-side

Vernon: “Don Quixote.†We haven’t performed it that much, so that’s definitely my pick. I think it’s a really good song, I love the production. It had a really nice response from the Carats as well, but I wish it was more known to the general public. We had a studio session with Bumzu, Woozi, myself, and other producers. Melanie wrote the melody for the song, and I was just really amazed how great a singer she was. She came up with these melodies so quickly, and I was really astonished by the process.

The instruments, the top line, the melody — overall, I think it’s a really good song. It has that buildup to a dramatic climax, and it’s really grand-sounding. I think it’s the coolest song to listen to.

Joshua: Maybe “Fearless� A lot of people do know “Fearless,†but I feel like we were contemplating whether to make “Fearless†our title track. We thought it was also worthy. The performance is great, the song is great, and we just wanna shine the light on this song a little bit more. It shows what we can do as a big group. And I think it was the first time we used that many backup dancers in that period.

Vernon: Our studio wasn’t big enough for all of those people, so we went to like a stadium in a school.

Joshua: We had to borrow that to practice. We usually practice amongst ourselves, but with all those dancers, there’s a lot more different formations, so just piecing that all together was a little bit hard the first time.

There’s this part in the choreo for “Fearless†where Jeonghan climbs up on the “stairs.†The dancers become the stairs, and he has to do a trust fall. And that was crazy, ‘cause it took a really long time to get that right.

Vernon: He fell a few times.

Joshua: So we were like, Ah, do you think you could do this? Should we put this in? But we just wanted to show something different, so we eventually put that into the choreo.

Most memorable stage mistake

Joshua: I have a legendary one. It was the showcase of “Pretty U.â€

Vernon: Ahh! Right, right, right. It looked like you did it on purpose, though.

Joshua: Yeah, I tried. A lot of things were going through my mind. I was like, Oh, I made a mistake. I should wait on the members doing it, and make it look like it’s a domino effect. But it was our first time showcasing that song, so I was like, [sighs]. Can’t believe I made a mistake on that most important part. I was exactly in the center, too. I got everything right in rehearsals, and when it was like the most important time, I got that wrong.

Our last music broadcast, we actually did that mistake on purpose as a fan service. But yeah, the first time … obviously, making mistakes on stage, you can’t be happy about that. I try not to delve into that area. I was like, Next time, I won’t make a mistake on the other broadcasts. [My members] were definitely trying to make me feel better. They were like laughing it off and were really cool about it, so I was okay.

Vernon: I was probably at the back of the formation, so I wasn’t able to witness it myself. And I really wish I was able to, because that would have been so hilarious. [Laughs.] I do make mistakes time to time, but the mistakes I make fortunately aren’t that visible. So even when I do, I always act like I got nothing wrong.

Joshua: [Points at Vernon.] That’s a pro.

Most energizing choreography to perform

Vernon: The songs that are the most fun to perform are the most energizing, and “Left and Right†is that song for me. At the end, we’re all in one line. We don’t do the original choreography, we kind of switch it up and freestyle. That’s the most fun part.

Joshua: For me, when we had our Japan concert recently, we changed up our setlist and our song “Ima -Even if the world ends tomorrow-†was put in. And after performing that in front of our fans, I felt like, Oh, that’s such an energizing song. The beginning of the choreo, it starts with a bang. We carry that energy with us until the end of the performance.

Vernon: Definitely the beginning. We get together in a circle, and we … Aah! Aah! [Laughs.] We hype each other up, and then we start with the choreo, kicking front and back.

Silliest music-show encore

Vernon: There was this one time, the members gathered around and they tried to throw me in the air. But the guys who got my head, they didn’t throw me properly, so my legs flew up. [Laughs.] That felt kinda scary.

Joshua: “Home;Run.†When we did baseball up on stage, that was really funny.

Vernon: Every encore stage, we decide what we would do on the day of the event, so nothing is like planned in advance. We just gather around in the waiting room and we’re like [puts hand on chin], what should we do today?

Joshua: Yeah. What would be funny? What would the audience enjoy?

Vernon: Not necessarily to make them laugh, but—

Joshua: Happy.

Vernon: Just something worth watching.

The year you grew the most as artists

Vernon: This year. I still do feel like I have a long way to go, but I have grown more as a songwriter. I have a much wider spectrum when I listen to music now, and that definitely helps me. I’m working a lot in the studio these days. There are three things that I consider most important. One is listening to a lot of music, one is working on a lot of music, and another is knowing what you like, having taste. The last one, I was reminded by Rick Rubin’s latest book. He emphasizes that part a lot not only in the book, but also just in his interviews in general.

Joshua: I think this year, too. Definitely as a performer, as an artist, and in other areas that I’m interested in. Like not just music, but clothing too. Throughout the years I’ve been trying to find my own style in fashion, but I think this year I finally found what suits me the most. Casual but fun, with little points to it. Nothing too crazy, but I don’t like it too plain, you know what I mean?

A long time ago, I thought cutting up skinny jeans and making shorts was really cool, and when I look back at my old photos, I’m like, Why the heck did I do that? That was so weird. That doesn’t suit my body structure. But, [laughs], I think it was through those times, I grew.

Episode of Going Seventeen you’d most like to redo

Joshua: “The Guest Who Left Secretly.†I feel like if I do that one more time, I could do a much better job. I wasn’t sneaky enough. I could have escaped much faster. But a lot of our members … it was our first time filming something like that, so we were like all on edge.

Vernon: I’d like to do “Four Wheeled Rider†again. Not because I think I can do a better job, but just because it’s a fun episode. I liked it because it’s not really … no one wins based on their skills because of the items we have to use during the game.

Most nerve-wracking live performance

Joshua: Performing at smaller venues is more nerve-wracking because if you perform at a bigger venue, you can’t really see the audience that well. It’s kind of like a blur of light. But if it’s a smaller audience, you can see all their expressions. It’s more intimate, so that’s the good part, but it’s also more nerve-wracking because of that.

Maybe our first MAMA performance was the most nerve-wracking for me, ’cause we have to perform in front of other artists. In that period of time, I feel like we were so busy with other things that we didn’t necessarily have as much time to prepare for the awards ceremony, so I was afraid I might get things wrong.

Vernon: Our first arena show in Japan. I was really nervous then. We’d never experienced such a scale. And yeah, I felt really overwhelmed. But then, from starting from the second show, I kind of got the hang of how I should control myself. We’ve performed multiple times in bigger venues since then.

I just try to enjoy whenever I’m up on stage because if I don’t, the audience wouldn’t. So even when I feel really tired or down or I’m nervous about a certain part that I might get wrong, I just don’t think about it. I just try to be in the moment and enjoy myself with the members and with the audience.

Hoshi and DK are like the two hype men of Seventeen. If you’ve ever seen Going Seventeen, you know how they’re like when they’re really excited. That’s how they hype us up before the show. Even when they’re not that excited, they just do it for the team. And that really helps a lot.

Best advice to Carats who feel down when Seventeen isn’t all together

Joshua: Mm … I think we’re always together. So even if we’re not physically together, I feel like as a team and with our Carats, we are one. So even if a member is on hiatus or they aren’t able to perform with us for a long time, they’re obviously going to come back later on. So yeah, just like to have that belief and to have the feeling of togetherness … if they just have that, then I feel like they won’t be as sad.

New song you’re most excited to perform on tour

Vernon: It shows Seventeen’s true colors. We’re just a really fun and bright group in general, and “God of Music†is that kind of song.

Joshua: It shows our energy, it shows our happiness, it shows our teamwork, it shows our performance skill sets. Yeah, I think it perfectly embodies Seventeen.

Vernon: I feel like it’s very appropriate timing to come back with such a song. I think the Carats have been waiting for this kind of song for quite a while now, and we’re really excited to perform that in front of them.

The official name for fans of Seventeen — as in, Carats make Seventeen shine. (The group has a diamond logo, and their song “Shining Diamonds†was released prior to their official debut.) Thirteen members in three subunits that form one cohesive team adds up to the group’s name. Seventeen dropped their first mini album on May 26, 2015, which concluded an MBC reality show about their debut. “Pretty U†was released a year later with their first studio album, Love & Letter. Seventeen made their official Japanese debut in 2018. This year, they topped Japan’s Oricon chart with Always Yours, a greatest-hits compilation album that includes 27 of their Japanese-language tracks. One of Seventeen’s frequent collaborators. The singer-songwriter-producer was also previously a vocal coach for group members during their training period. Joy Fontana, who also helped compose Seventeen’s Sector 17 track “_World.†Instead of the final choice, “Left and Right.†The Japan leg of Seventeen’s Follow tour began in September. K-pop music shows calculate wins based on a number of factors, which can include votes, streams, physical sales, digital sales, expert scores, and social-media mentions. Different shows use different formulas, but the first-place winner gets to perform a live encore. Vernon has previously shared a playlist of his song recommendations, and says he has another playlist “coming out soon.†The Creative Act: A Way of Being. In this episode, the members are challenged to leave individual rooms without being spotted or called back by another member. This episode involved go-kart racing … with impediments like water guns, of course. The Mnet Asian Music Awards, an annual awards ceremony. In 2017, Seventeen performed two nights in a row at the Saitama Super Arena, which has a capacity of up to 37,000.
Joshua and Vernon on Seventeen’s Super Silly, Sincere Career